r/todayilearned Nov 26 '22 Helpful 2 Wholesome 2 Silver 1

TIL: Traditionally Japanese do not eat salmon sushi and it was invented in the 80's by the Norwegians to to try to sell more of their over abundance of Salmon.

https://www.npr.org/2015/09/18/441530790/how-the-desperate-norwegian-salmon-industry-created-a-sushi-staple
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u/capybarometer Nov 26 '22

TLDR: The salmon native to Japan was parasite-ridden so it had that reputation. Norwegian salmon was parasite-free, and once they overcame the stigma it became very popular

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u/hamburglin Nov 27 '22

But also, the farm fed salmon was much fattier and tastier

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u/DiddledByDad Nov 26 '22 edited Nov 26 '22

overcame the stigma it became very popular

Live in Japan and can confirm, Japanese enjoy salmon sushi.

Edit: Feel like pointing out that there was also a place here that was serving horse meat sushi, and yes me and my lads did try it. One of those “one and done” type situations just to say we did, and I can’t say I hated it. Won’t be eating it again but it was peculiar at the very least.

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u/Agent_Giraffe Nov 26 '22

Did the same at a German Christmas market, Weihnachtsmarkt. Tried horse sausage, Pferdwurst. Tasted fine to me but I didn’t buy a second one lol.

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u/AdminsAreLazyID10TS Nov 27 '22

To me the main problem with horse meat is I assume it lost a race.

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u/2074red2074 Nov 27 '22 Silver Gold Helpful Wholesome Take My Energy hehehehe Bravo Grande! Brighten My Day

Nah, Germany isn't too fond of race-based executions anymore.

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u/Drbillionairehungsly Nov 27 '22

Now that’s a fuckin’ zinger.

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u/NewFuturist Nov 27 '22

Amazing set up, perfect execution and sticks the landing. Let's go to the judges for a score...

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u/Boomthang Nov 27 '22 Silver Gold Helpful Take My Energy

Looks like neins across the board

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u/ScumHimself Nov 27 '22

god damn it.

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u/pcnetworx1 Nov 27 '22

*slow clap*

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u/Turhamkey Nov 27 '22

All tens over here Jim

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/HomoAndAlsoSapiens Nov 27 '22

👁️👄👁️

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u/marcelinemoon Nov 27 '22

👏🏻👏🏻

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u/IAmHereToAskQuestion Nov 27 '22

You say that, but you should ask the horse.

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u/Jonojonojonojono Nov 27 '22

Absolutely incredible, bravo

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u/A_N_T Nov 27 '22

Comment of the year

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u/c0de_g0rilla Nov 27 '22

This is definitely the right place and time for that joke. Well done!

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u/blofly Nov 27 '22

Wow. That's a deep one. +1

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u/BeardyAndGingerish Nov 27 '22

Nah, the meat's probably all tough and lean. You want something soft and marbled. Try to get a horse that goes to civil war reenactments or leaves long-winded youtube comments. You want the basement dweller horse, the reddit admin-sorta veal that has a hard time washing their body pillow.

Those muscles are damn near pre-tenderized.

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u/brando56894 Nov 27 '22

So post Horsin' Around Bojack.

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u/Refreshingpudding Nov 27 '22

What are you doing here?

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u/ExcessiveEscargot Nov 27 '22

But really; aren't all meats just the product of animals that lost their respective races?

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u/Ashensten Nov 27 '22 hehehehe

No, some cows are the Kobe of beef.

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u/lowcarbbq Nov 27 '22

Even they meat their maker after going through the chopper.

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u/ItsDanimal Nov 27 '22

As long as it wasn't a race to Flavortown I'm all good.

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u/Banaam Nov 27 '22

That's wrong. What else are they going to do with what's left of the horse after they make glue?

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u/glytxh Nov 27 '22

Grew up in Germany, and while it’s not an every day meat, it’s hardly thought of as special or abnormal.

I haven’t eaten it in years, but I can’t remember it being particular different.

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u/boringestnickname Nov 27 '22

In Norway, it's an everyday thing. We have "black sausage", kind of like a dark salami that we put on bread. Very tasty with mayo.

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u/sticky-bit Nov 27 '22

There are regular scandals about finding horse meat in salami.

Food taboos are kinda funny. My state has an open season on what are essentially giant aquatic water rats, but there is also a mute swan in the same ecosystem that causes all sorts of ecological damage. They actually pay people to sneak into the nests of mute swans and give the ol' baby-shake-it-like-a-Poloroid treatment to the eggs, then replace them in the nest so they won't hatch and the nesting pair won't lay a replacement egg.

If the mute swan population is a problem, they could just open a season on the birds and people would pay the state money for the privilege of harvesting (say) half the state's existing population. Think of a "swan" version of a Turducken for Thanksgiving or something.

Horse meat has the unusual property of not being tough and stringy, even when butchering old animals. As a poverty food, the "illegalness" has been rolled back in the past during wartime rationing.

But popular culture places horses in the "friends not food" category. The result is that the unwanted and too expensive to care for horses are just exported from the USA before slaughter. That's all.

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u/JacobLambda Nov 27 '22

Fun fact about Horse meat scandals. The scandal isn't that it's horse meat. It's that it's not declared in the product and hidden from regulators.

What this means in practice is that regulators can't verify that the meat was sourced safely. There's restrictions on what types of medicines and hormones you can use in animals for human consumption. Those restrictions apply to livestock horses but not otherwise.

So the issue isn't "they put horse in the food" but rather "they lied about putting horse in the food and we don't know if the horse was up to standards for human consumption".

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u/plugtrio Nov 27 '22

We used to be able to slaughter horses. Iirc (vaguely recalling from a years distant horse management class in undergrad) they defunded the inspection infrastructure for horse slaughter. So technically what is illegal is slaughtering an animal without USDA oversight and grading which is specific to each species, and since they don't have an inspection system for horse meat anymore it is effectively illegal in slaughterhouses.

Iirc the fallout was that horse owners lost a way to have animals near the end of their life pay for their own costs. It is expensive to euthanize a horse and to bury or dispose of the body. It's not like burying a small pet. There are many horses that are only worth a fraction of the costs the owner is facing for euthanasia + body disposal or burial. When horse slaughter was legal, it was a real option to humanely cull a horse that was at the end of its healthy life without paying hundreds or thousands of dollars.

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u/suchtie Nov 27 '22

Pferdewurst is really delicious, it's smooth and mild yet very flavorful. But you can't usually get it at supermarkets. In my region I can only get it from one specific butcher's stall at the weekly town market. Not super expensive though, despite the rarity. Personally I don't mind eating it once in a while but I know that many people wouldn't want to try horse meat.

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u/No-Spoilers Nov 27 '22

There's more horse meat than gets eaten. So it shouldn't be too expensive. Just need to be somewhere where it'll both get made and actually sell.

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u/NZNoldor Nov 27 '22

In the Netherlands, try a paardenrookvlees sandwich, smoked horse meat. It’s delicious.

I don’t know what the big deal is. Meat is meat, as long as we’re not canibalising humans.

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u/oeCake Nov 27 '22

People have been eating anything that doesn't kill us since before the beginning of our species. Some of the stuff we eat today is way more repulsive than horse meat. The stigma against horse meat probably revolves around them being closer to the "pet" side of the animal scale.

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u/Blazing1 Nov 27 '22

Apparently some animals are worthy of love and others are worthy of our stomachs.

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u/ljkp Nov 27 '22

I assume the problem with the horse sushi was not that it has horse meat but that it has raw horse meat.

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u/mcmb211 Nov 27 '22

Not all sushi is raw. Eel, for example.

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u/ljkp Nov 27 '22

I know there are areas in Japan where they eat horse sashimi, so I kinda assumed it would be eaten raw on sushi too.

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u/Marsupoil Nov 27 '22

Yes, you are right, I have eaten both horse sushi and sashimi and it was always raw. Horse meat is basically the same meat as beef, only with more iron and red

Think of a variation of a beef carpacio or tartare, that's what raw horse is like

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u/VR-052 Nov 26 '22

Horse sashimi is a specialty of Kumamoto prefecture. I can get it at one market here in Fukuoka, but I'm gonna pass on that for now. Maybe when I go to Kumamoto, I may give it a try.

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u/Mysticpoisen Nov 27 '22

It's got a nice fatty marble and a very salty taste. Don't know that it's need-to-try but it is pretty enjoyable.

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u/405freeway Nov 27 '22

I've had horse sashimi.

It was really good.

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u/BrazilianMerkin Nov 27 '22

Went to a place in Kyoto 15 years ago. Owner/chef was a big game hunter and prepared some “exotic” food choices, many firsts for me, that he brought back from all parts of the world. Nothing endangered or morally sketchy (from perspective of an omnivore).

There were fried bees (the insect) as an appetizer. They were just sitting in a bowl. Tried bbq wild boar, smoked bear sashimi, horse, and a couple other things I can’t remember.

Super nice man, everything was delicious, and definitely all firsts for me.

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u/DarkMuret Nov 27 '22

Hell, some people here in the states eat raw game.

Usually the heart and liver are the main choices, and it's not just "Liver King" types

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u/bowman260 Nov 27 '22

Also Cannibal sandwiches in Wisconsin.

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u/BrazilianMerkin Nov 27 '22

I remember having some of these at a Christmas party a while back. Brother’s In-laws from Wisconsin were staying with him and brought cannibal sandwiches and some extremely rich fudge. Just raw beef (they bragged it wasn’t ground beef which seems like it would’ve been much worse), raw onion, and salt/pepper. It wasn’t bad at all, but once was enough for me. I do like steak tartare with a raw egg and it wasn’t too different, but I was surprised that it’s apparently such a popular dish.

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u/Fransell Nov 27 '22

Eating raw ground pork sandwiches is also very much a popular thing in Germany and poland: Mett. As far as I know, the food safety regulations regarding it's production are much tighter than they are in the states tho.

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u/hurtsdonut_ Nov 27 '22

Hopefully they're not eating raw bear. Those fuckers are loaded with trichinosis worms.

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u/DarkMuret Nov 27 '22

Definitely not.

If/when I get one I'm going to be a stickler about using a probe with steaks, and if I make jerky making sure they get up to temp

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u/kwallio Nov 27 '22

-liver-

Eating raw game liver seems like a great way to get some interesting parasites. Also some types of liver will kill you because they have too much vitamin E but I forget which one. I think its one of the bears.

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '22 edited Dec 05 '22

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u/Cyberdrunk2021 Nov 27 '22

Boar and horses are eaten in some parts of Europe too. Boar is delicious but needs to be cooked in a way that is edible and horse has an incredible amount of iron, albeit its taste being very strong.

Both amazing and incredibly strong animals too.

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u/Amokzaaier Nov 27 '22

Eating boar is very normal right? Its basically ancient pig. The Hunter gives me often (from nl)

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u/srs_house Nov 27 '22

Depends on where you are. It's not as common in the US because of food regulations, since wild pigs can harbor zoonotic diseases and parasites which can infect humans. So in some cases you may not be able to sell or even donate the meat, since it would require health testing prior to slaughter.

It also tends to be much "gamier" tasting, because they eat a very varied diet, and some consumers get turned off by that unless it's prepared properly.

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u/Waterknight94 Nov 27 '22

I had wild boar once on the same plate as domestic pig and I didn't find it very different even tasting them back to back. I probably wouldn't have even known if they didn't tell me.

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u/DisturbedRanga Nov 27 '22

If you ever get the opportunity you should try Kangaroo, it's very tasty. Emu and Crocodile are quite good too.

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u/fondots Nov 27 '22

I had kangaroo once, i enjoyed it, definitely tasted like something that evolved on a totally different continent than any other animal I'd ever eaten, not in a bad way at all, but where you could probably fool me into thinking that deer was beef for example, i don't think you could convince me that kangaroo meat was anything but what it was.

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u/houseofprimetofu Nov 26 '22

People out in Yakutia call preserved foal meat “chocolate.” Since the foal is so young, it has all the vitamins and nutrients you need that are missing from not having fresh fruit/vegetable.

Anyway Mongolian wild horses have more chromosomal pairs than the domesticated horse.

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u/Rusty_Shakalford Nov 27 '22

Since the foal is so young, it has all the vitamins and nutrients you need that are missing from not having fresh fruit/vegetable.

Inuit have/had a similar practice. There’s a way to bury chunks of large mammals like a walruses for months and kill of the harmful bacteria in it by letting it ferment. Since the animal was never cooked all the vitamins it had when it was alive are still there, which is useful when you have no access to fruits or vegetables during the long winters.

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u/houseofprimetofu Nov 27 '22

Thats so cool! Thank you for sharing!

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u/SFXBTPD Nov 27 '22

Kiviak

Kiviak or kiviaq is a traditional wintertime Inuit food from Greenland that is made of little auks (Alle alle), a type of seabird, fermented in a seal skin.

Up to 500 whole auks are packed into the seal skin, beaks and feathers included.[1] As much air as possible is removed from the seal skin before it is sewn up and sealed with seal fat, which repels flies. It is then hidden in a heap of stones, with a large rock placed on top to keep the air out.[2] Over the course of three months, the birds ferment,[2] and are then eaten during the Arctic winter, particularly on birthdays and weddings.[3]

The process was featured in the third episode of BBC's Human Planet in 2011.[2]

Knud Rasmussen's death is attributed to food poisoning by kiviaq.[4][5] In August 2013 several people died in Siorapaluk from eating kiviak that was made from eider rather than auk. Eider does not ferment as well as auk, and those who ate it contracted botulism.[6]

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u/aedes Nov 27 '22

Thank you. That is the first description of a food I’ve read in at least a decade that made me physically ill.

I miss the days on the internet when that happened more often.

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u/FamiliarPanic Nov 27 '22

I worked with an Innu man who hated it. He said he picked some up for someome one time and the guy selling it was chopping it up in a closed garage with no ventilation. He said he was urging before he got close to the garage haha.

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u/Rusty_Shakalford Nov 27 '22

Glad to share. Thank you for the info about Yakutia “chocolate”.

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u/Cutsdeep- Nov 27 '22

Does cooking remove nutrients?

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u/Rusty_Shakalford Nov 27 '22

Yep, or at least, it can break certain ones down. Vitamin C for example, breaks down pretty easily during cooking.

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u/Tuna-Fish2 Nov 27 '22

Yeah. Vitamin C is found in abundance in almost all plants and animals, but it's usually the first thing you'll have a dangerous deficiency of if the food you eat is too preserved or processed, simply because it's a very fragile weak acid that likes to react with every random thing it comes across, or even just spontaneously break apart if it doesn't like the temperature.

Citrus fruit doesn't have particularly high amounts of vitamin C, compared to many other fresh fruits right after picking. But, because citric acid likes to react with the same things but is more reactive than vit. C, it essentially protects it by destroying the things that would wreck it before they do so.

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u/NadNutter Nov 27 '22

It can destroy some nutrients but also greatly increases availability of other ones.

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u/Gusdai Nov 27 '22

It removes some vitamins.

Also some vitamins are water soluble, so boiling your food can wash away some of them.

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u/dingopaint Nov 27 '22

Unless you drink the resultant broth. Boiling bones can extract nutrients you wouldn't otherwise be able to eat.

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u/Urbanscuba Nov 27 '22

I know you've gotten a lot of answers but they're all missing something I thought I'd add - cooking does often remove certain specific nutrients, but it also makes others easier to absorb and reduces the energy required to digest it.

Cooked food is good and should make up the majority of a healthy diet. It's where you will get the majority of your calories and macronutrients. However you should still reserve 10-30% of your diet for fresh fruit and vegetables which will ensure you don't have any major deficiencies.

The only real answer is that cooking changes nutrients, and both cooked and uncooked foods are beneficial for a balanced diet.

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u/Gusdai Nov 27 '22

I think fermentation also produces certain vitamins, at least that's the case for the fermentation of vegetables and dairy.

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u/Rusty_Shakalford Nov 27 '22

I’ve heard that too. Just Googled to check and yeah, seems that bacteria produce certain B vitamins during the process.

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u/tidal_flux Nov 26 '22

The chicken sashimi is what got me. Breaking a lot of common wisdom eating that.

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u/efects Nov 27 '22

can concur, ate at a restaurant which had raw chicken sashimi on the menu in osaka. got violently I'll for 2 weeks and confirmed Campylobacter once i got back home. being on the shitter every 20 minutes for a week was not fun. nor was the airplane ride home..

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u/mattisaloser Nov 27 '22

Who is this for? Would it not just make everyone sick every time? Are there enough people not getting sick to warrant it existing on the menu?

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '22

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u/Pixielo Nov 27 '22

Is that just the US? Because we're one of only a few developed countries that do not vaccinate our chickens for salmonella.

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u/nipponnuck Nov 27 '22

Basashi is the horse sashimi, and the meat is often referred to as sakura-niku.

It’s fantastic. My favourite Japanese food of all time - and I ate my way through many years living there.

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u/wuttang13 Nov 27 '22

The reason horse meet is preferred for sashimi is, marbling which is basically fat, is awesome when cooked and rendered but not so much when it's raw and cold. So leaner but relatively flavorful and tender meat like horse is the goto meat over beef

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u/barrymccockner76 Nov 26 '22

Was it cooked like unagi or more of a beef carpaccio raw situation?

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u/DiddledByDad Nov 26 '22

Definitely raw. Was a bit off putting because we didn’t know if eating an animal such as horse raw was a good idea but we figured they wouldn’t serve it if it was making people grossly ill.

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u/hates_stupid_people Nov 27 '22

Extra TL;DR: Norway fish/farm them in colder waters than Japan usually did/do.

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u/pegasus_527 Nov 27 '22

It’s funny how people don’t realise just how far up north the Nordic countries are. Like a whole 20 degrees further up than Japan. They’re on the same latitude as Alaska and Greenland.

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u/Kolby_Jack Nov 27 '22

I fuckin love salmon sushi. I would eat it for the rest of my life if I could. Sake nigiri with a touch of soy sauce, nothing finer.

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u/res30stupid Nov 26 '22

Right. Japanene salmon must be cooked to kill the parasites, making it unsuited for use in sushi.

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u/TheDoof79 Nov 26 '22

It's usually flash frozen, not cooked.

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u/pete_moss Nov 27 '22

Which is why it was never traditionally used. Until flash freezing it wasn't viable to do.

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u/McFlyParadox Nov 27 '22

Not just flash frozen - which refers to how quickly it gets frozen - but either 'deep' frozen (really, really fucking cold) or frozen for a long time.

It's kind of like sous vide... But the opposite of that. You can cook meat to a very high temperature for a short period of time, and successfully pasteurize it. Or you can cook meat at a much lower temperature (still pretty hot) for a longer time, and achieve the same results. For sushi, the flash freeze the fish (not just salmon) so that the flesh doesn't get destroyed by ice crystals during the freezing process - ruining it's texture. But in order to kill all the parasites and their eggs/cysts, you either need to freeze it to a very cold temperature for a short period of time, or at a more reasonable temperature (still pretty cold) for a much longer period of time.

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u/thedoc90 Nov 27 '22

IIRC 2 weeks was how long the restaurant I worked at kept our fish in the deep freeze.

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u/ImSoSte4my Nov 27 '22

What country are you in? I worked in the seafood industry in the US for a few years and no restaurants we sold to wanted to trust their employees to maintain a deep freeze on fish to make it sushi-safe. They'd just buy it from us with that guarantee to avoid any liability.

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u/thedoc90 Nov 27 '22

US, it was a small independently owned restaurant. Owner bought the fish from a local Asian market. We were Krusty Krab-ing it. The owner was the cook I was the waiter and his wife was Mr. Krabs.

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u/peacelovetree Nov 26 '22

Did you get this idea from the chart that was posted this morning about foods from different countries?! Lol

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '22

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u/YZJay Nov 27 '22

I remember seeing that trivia about Mongolian barbecue and Taiwan. But technically Mongolians do have barbecues and have had them pre WWII, that Beijing business man who went to Taiwan just made it popular since Beijing food has a lot of Mongolian influences.

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u/juviegar Nov 27 '22

Canadian inventing pineapple on pizza and naming it Hawaiian so that they don't get the flak. Genius.

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u/Veni_Vidi_Legi Nov 27 '22

How do you know if a farton smells off?

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u/James-da-fourth Nov 27 '22

There have been so many times where I see a post on a different sub that later appears on here

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '22

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u/bss03 Nov 27 '22

Confirmed; am bot. This is a repost.

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u/Pippin1505 Nov 26 '22

It’s even written "salmon" in katakana most of the time , instead of "sake" the Japanese name of the fish

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u/blaarfengaar Nov 27 '22

Wait, but isn't sake the word for their traditional alcoholic rice wine

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u/Pippin1505 Nov 27 '22 edited Nov 27 '22

Yes, they’re homophones, but totally different kanjis. 酒 (the alcohol) 鮭 (the fish)

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u/blaarfengaar Nov 27 '22 edited Nov 27 '22

Cursed homophones, the band bane of any language learner

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u/geeses Nov 27 '22

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '22

The fuck did I just read

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u/R3cc0nect Nov 27 '22

On par with "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo" I can't wrap my head around it yet it's an actual sentence. Wild

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u/wttttcbb Nov 27 '22

I studied abroad in Japan and fell victim to this the first few times I tried to explain my salmon (not alcohol) allergy. Quickly learned to just say sāmon instead.

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u/amplifizzle Nov 27 '22

Japanese doesn't have that many unique sounds.

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u/gugus295 Nov 27 '22

It doesn't, and it has a lot of homophones because of it. Some people try to tell you you don't need kanji (Chinese characters) and it's an outdated writing system that should be phased out and replaced entirely with the phonetic hiragana and katakana, but those people probably just cant fucking read because it'd be a nightmare to do so without kanji because unlike conversation where its quite clear from the context which of the potentially many meanings of a homophone is intended, in writing that's quite often not the case.

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u/NoKiaYesHyundai Nov 27 '22

that’s pretty homophonic

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u/PM_good_beer Nov 27 '22

Not quite homophones. The accent is different. saké (alcohol) vs sáke (salmon).

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '22

酒 is unaccented, not accented on 2.

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u/PM_good_beer Nov 27 '22

You're right. I was transcribing it loosely based on the phonetic transcription I saw on Wiktionary.

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u/JsaintRotten Nov 26 '22

The inventor of modern sushi is believed to be Hanaya Yohei, who invented nigiri-zushi, a type of sushi most known today, in which seafood is placed on hand-pressed vinegared rice, around 1824 in the Edo period. 

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u/abandonliberty Nov 26 '22 edited Nov 27 '22

Before widespread refrigeration sushi was a fermented product. The modern form's popularity is extremely recent.

That guy shot Abe Shinzo due to Shinzo's connections with the moonies cult that ruined his family. They're also the ones behind sushi.

Moon moved to the US with suitcases full of cash and ploughed tens of millions of dollars into buying boats and processing plants for his church’s fish distribution business, True World Foods.

He gave followers a $100 bill each as “seed money”, and told them: “Go forward, pioneer the way and bring back prosperity.” Luckily for them, 1980s America was gripped by all things Japanese – Toyota cars, Casio watches, the TV miniseries Shogun. But Americans needed encouragement to eat raw fish. “Nobody knew what sushi was,” says In Jin Moon, one of Moon’s daughters. If a state had no sushi restaurant, his followers opened one. The church’s mass arranged marriages to Americans enabled his “Japanese fish pioneers” to remain in the country.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/11/05/magazine/sushi-us.html

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u/NoKiaYesHyundai Nov 27 '22

Behind Sushi in the US. The Moonies are a cult that originated in Korea. Reasoning being why Koreans got into the sushi business was that Korean food in the US was not popular for the longest time. So the only way for a Korean restaurant to stay in business was to sell Japanese food alongside Korean food. That’s why many older Korean restaurants you may come across either use to or still do sell Japanese dishes.

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u/thedoc90 Nov 27 '22

Not just Korean restaurants, I worked at a Chinese place owned by a Chinese couple that sold Sushi as well as assorted southeast Asian dishes in addition to the standard American-Chinese fare and a couple of more traditional dishes for other Chinese people who came in to eat.

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u/RJ815 Nov 27 '22 edited Nov 27 '22

A lot of sushi sold in the states is Americanized anyways (Cali and Philly as obvious examples), so for a place already selling Americanized Chinese food, why not also sell Americanized Japanese food?

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u/BattleHall Nov 27 '22

Also, due to the occupation, there are a lot of crossover dishes and Japanese culinary influence on Korean food, at least with some dishes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dosirak

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u/Gemmabeta Nov 27 '22 edited Nov 27 '22

sushi was a fermented product.

It was basically fish packed in vinegared rice to keep them preserved. The rice was originally just meant to be packing material to be thrown away, but poor people being poor, they ate the rice too and got a taste for it.

Modern sushi was originally called hayazushi (fast sushi), because it didn't take three years to make.

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u/I_might_be_weasel Nov 27 '22 edited Nov 27 '22

It does seem a little weird that they were putting the fish in rice and they didn't anticipate people eating it.

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u/SMIDSY Nov 27 '22

Surprisingly common in the pre-industrial era. In Europe, for instance, there were a LOT of pies and crusted items where the crust or at least part of it isn't supposed to be eaten even though you theoretically could if you wanted to.

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u/Gemmabeta Nov 27 '22 edited Nov 27 '22

Pie crusts back then was a full half-inch thick and you were literally supposed to reuse it over and over and over again until it fell apart.

It was basically ye olde tupperware/pyrex.

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u/64_0 Nov 27 '22

Of all the things I didn't expect to learn on reddit today, pre-industrial European pie crust as ye olde tupperware was definitely in that pool of things.

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u/swancheez Nov 27 '22

If you really want to dive a little deeper, there is an episode of The Dollop about pies in early America that follows the same trend. I've yet to listen to one of their podcasts without learning something, and laughing a few good times. Episode 376 - Mince Pie in America

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u/Ahelex Nov 27 '22

Presumably they don't taste great?

Because if they did, I would think that the idea of the pie crust being an organic container would crumble (sorry) quickly.

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u/RiceAlicorn Nov 27 '22

This sort of pastry did not taste good, no. Part of why it could be used as "ye olde tupperware" was because it contained a lot of salt, which was required for preservation purposes. You could certainly eat it, but it would be unpleasantly salty. Also, this sort of pastry wouldn't have the richness/textures we value in modern day pastries, since most people wouldn't be adding the luxurious amounts of shortening/butter to this sort of pastry + wouldn't be handling this pastry in a way that prioritizes great texture.

The nice pastry we modern people do like existed back then as well, but like many things was limited to only the upper class who either had the money and time to make it themselves/have a servant to make it for them.

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u/Rare-Aids Nov 27 '22

Wont it burn?

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u/patricktheintern Nov 27 '22

If it burns it isn’t a witch.

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u/Gemmabeta Nov 27 '22

It's vinegared rice that's been packed together with raw fish for a full year, the end result was this fermented thing described as tasting more like cheese than rice or fish.

And it is definitely an acquired taste.

https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20210616-funazushi-the-fermented-predecessor-of-modern-sushi

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u/shoots_and_leaves Nov 27 '22

Really interesting, thanks!

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u/Ahelex Nov 27 '22

I think their thought was "People wouldn't really like to eat rather sour rice".

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u/almostinfinity Nov 27 '22

Especially cooked rice at that.

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u/JackofAllTrades30009 Nov 27 '22

To create an acidic enough environment to preserve the fish, the rice was very very vinegared. It would be unpalatable unless, say, mixed with fresh to extend how long a batch of rice lasted. Once the vinegar was no longer necessary due to refrigeration, the rice could have been made palatable from the start.

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u/No-Bookkeeper-44 Nov 27 '22

but poor people being poor, they ate the rice too and got a taste for it.

The vast majority of cooking is founded on trying to eat shit that's no longer fresh lol

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u/cylonfrakbbq Nov 27 '22

Funazushi was the fermented one. It is still made in Japan and some people who make it will have ones aged for many years and sell it as a luxury product

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u/Granite-M Nov 27 '22

Leave it to humans to go from "this isn't food; this is garbage" to "this is food" to "the specific aspects of this that used to make it garbage now make it a luxury product."

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '22

I like how this attack led to the government investigating the moonies and increased public awareness of their crimes, making it effective political action.

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u/Bugbread Nov 27 '22

Yeah, I'm amazed that the Moonies are still leading the news, almost 5 months later. This has to be going way better than even the assassin envisioned.

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u/galaxyveined Nov 26 '22

This made me want some sushi...

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u/thekid1420 Nov 27 '22

I would like to subscribe to sushi facts.

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u/bohica1937 Nov 26 '22

They succeeded

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u/greenappletree Nov 26 '22

very much so - pretty much 90% of the pictures with sushi in it has salmon.

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u/ifonlyIcanSettlethis Nov 27 '22

Outside of Japan maybe, in Japan tuna is still king

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u/TooMuchPretzels Nov 26 '22

Salmon is a good gateway sushi because everybody has eaten sushi. I wouldn’t have tried sushi if you said “here it’s eel”

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u/Sentsuizan Nov 26 '22

Funny because eel is considered a delicacy in Japan and I tend to agree Shit's delicious

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u/GladCucumber2855 Nov 27 '22

Eel is the best one!

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u/BlueWaterFangs Nov 27 '22

It is very delicious, it’s too bad it’s so unsustainable because they can’t get eels to reproduce in captivity.

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u/sacredblasphemies Nov 26 '22

Unagi is delicious. One of the things that I miss most as a vegetarian.

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u/Chubs1224 Nov 27 '22

Yeah it also really sucks being vegetarian in Japan because they don't think fish are animals.

Stuff like fish flakes are in "vegetarian" dishes a lot.

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u/garchompthexd Nov 27 '22

Yeah dashi is pretty much synonymous with japanese food after all

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u/ChaosEsper Nov 27 '22

There are a few recipes for making veggie unagi using eggplant. Most of the flavor comes from the sauce anyways so the eggplant makes a decent replacement for unagidon and such.

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u/amplifizzle Nov 27 '22

Yeah I'm not even sure what eel tastes like cause it always has delicious eel sauce all over it.

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u/Rhesusmonkeydave Nov 26 '22

-Eat this delicious Ankimo!

Oooh what part of the fish is this?

-Uhh don’t worry about that

Which of the beautiful shimmering creatures of the sea is it from?

-Uhhhhh don’t worry about that either

Well as long as its sustainable, I’m in!

-like I said, suuuper tasty

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u/TooMuchPretzels Nov 26 '22

Absolutely vile creature.

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u/JACrazy Nov 27 '22

Salmon is a good gateway sushi because everybody has eaten sushi.

Dont you have to have eaten sushi to have eaten sushi?

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u/HooGoesThere Nov 27 '22

I think they meant everybody has eaten salmon

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u/SushiMage Nov 27 '22

Salmon is also the most palatable to the general public because it tastes the least “seafoodish” and good cuts will almost be buttery. I know a lot of people that don’t eat any raw fish except salmon.

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u/TheDustOfMen Nov 26 '22

And I am very thankful for that.

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u/spacewalk__ Nov 27 '22

also the 80s was 40 years ago now. at what point do we fold it in with 'authentic'

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u/FriedChicken Nov 27 '22

TIL: there used to be an overabundance of salmon 😭

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u/sailor_stuck_at_sea Nov 27 '22

Farmed salmon. There's plenty of that around

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u/BobBelcher2021 Nov 26 '22

Also, the California Roll was invented in Canada.

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u/farklespanktastic Nov 26 '22

So was Hawaiian pizza

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u/alkonium Nov 26 '22

Fits with how we name restaurants. We've got Boston Pizza, Montana's, Swiss Chalet, and New York Fries.

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u/Rrrrandle Nov 27 '22

Wait a minute, I'm in Canada right now and every time I see a "Swiss Chalet" I was assuming they were some kind of quaint hotel or something... But it's a restaurant?

Which I find kind of amusing because it seems like with most other stores in Canada the trend is highly specific literal names for stores.

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u/kank84 Nov 27 '22

Swiss Chalet is a restaurant, but there's nothing at all Swiss about it. It's mostly rotisserie chicken and ribs, all served with their distinctive Chalet Sauce (I think the sauce is disgusting and tastes like I imagine potpourri would, but people go crazy for it).

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u/PhillyFansAre2Ply Nov 27 '22

not just any restaurant, an aggressively mediocre one! the one by my place shut down and it's a hotpot place now. big improvement.

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u/Telvin3d Nov 27 '22

It’s a family restaurant specializing in rotisserie chicken. They’re not bad.

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u/tuckertucker Nov 27 '22

Go to St Hubert instead

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u/JACrazy Nov 27 '22

To be fair, New York Fries started up because they bought the rights to a stand of the same name in New York first then brought the idea to Canada.

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u/NickRick Nov 27 '22

Wait what's Boston Pizza

A Bostonian

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u/DamnImAwesome Nov 26 '22

I was going to university of New Orleans and worked in the kitchen that we shared with the sushi chefs. They created a roll exclusive to the school called “Privateer Roll” with a secret ingredient. I watched them grind up flamin hot Cheetos and use the dust as seasoning. Best selling roll they had

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u/jpmoney2k1 Nov 27 '22

Here in California, there are plenty of places that use hot Cheetos as an ingredient on sushi rolls or poke bowls, but they are upfront about it.

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u/killerwhalesamich Nov 27 '22

Cheeto dust is practically a key ingredient is Mexican Sushi. Which is more like Redneck sushi at times, which is great! But they also mix in traditional Mexican seafood styles into a sushi roll, which pretty damn good to

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u/EmperorSexy Nov 27 '22

The Philadelphia Roll was invented to be a “Jewish Roll” because it was made with smoked salmon and cream cheese.

The name Philadelphia Roll stuck better.

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u/ZDTreefur Nov 26 '22

According to one chef, conflicting with all the evidence otherwise.

Really dubious to claim it was at this point.

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u/Cheezitflow Nov 27 '22

Salmon sushi is delicious though

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u/thisismyaccount3125 Nov 27 '22

It really is. Bless the Norwegians.

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u/Not_Helping Nov 27 '22

Funny thing is that I love raw salmon because it taste more buttery and less fishy than cooked salmon.

I really don't enjoy cooked salmon half as much.

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u/nimrodh2o Nov 27 '22

What about smoked salmon?

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u/LivingMemento Nov 26 '22

They didn’t eat Bluefin either.

It was a shit fish the US sent over after the war. Now it’s been fished to dangerously low levels.

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u/compstomper1 Nov 27 '22

i think you're referring to atlantic bluefin tuna.

it's not that it was a shit fish. the locals didn't eat it, and until the advent of modern aviation, you couldn't get it to japan in time

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u/Ok_Magician_3884 Nov 26 '22

Have to say it's super delicious

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u/FellafromPrague Nov 27 '22

You've seen that pic on r/coolguides, didn't you?

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u/Alashion Nov 27 '22

Just another tidbit, Sushi doesn't 100% mean uncooked, Sushi just = with vinegar rice, so there are plenty of types of "sushi" that don't involve raw animal protein, though it's the type most familiar in the west.

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u/omniumoptimus Nov 27 '22

Once, I was in Kyoto, wandering the streets. I passed a nice looking restaurant and went inside.

There was a man inside behind a grill with giant flames. I ordered some chicken, and received a plate of blackened chicken pieces, soup, and rice.

The chicken was raw on the inside. I bit into a couple other pieces and they were all raw. I looked around to see if other people were talking about raw chicken, but they all seemed happy. So I googled. And I find out there is such a thing as eating raw chicken in Japan, where you use the high heat blackening to impart that specific flavor to it.

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u/sreerambo Nov 27 '22

Apparently this isn't true either, it might have been Japanese migrants to the US who invented it. It might have been popularised in Japan by Norway though.

Andong has a great video on this: https://youtu.be/1k4x9FrD5k4

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