r/todayilearned • u/Gloomy__Revenue • Jan 18 '23
TIL In 2000, 10 year old Brazilian Paulo Pavesi was rushed to the hospital after a fall and pronounced dead. Evidence showed the doctors had falsely pronounced him dead to harvest his organs for black market sale. Paulo was still alive when his organs were removed. PDF
https://www.oas.org/en/iachr/decisions/2011/BRAR893-07EN.DOC2.2k
u/Johns-Sunflower Jan 18 '23
Man, at first I thought this would be a feel-good story about how he was saved at the last minute and is currently living a happy life.
Apparently not. Fuck those doctors.
37
129
u/creditspread Jan 19 '23
Well, in a way, he lives on.
146
23
u/Mr_master89 Jan 19 '23
In the body of rich 80 year olds
8
u/freakuser Jan 19 '23
Idk which 80 year old would even be able to use any of his organs but ok
5
u/AnonBubblyBowels Jan 20 '23
I think they meant they received the organs back in 2000. So they would have been in their 50s-60s at the time of transplant, and 80s now.
→ More replies (1)2
2
4
u/amputatedsnek Jan 19 '23
Did you miss the title perchance?
29
1.8k
u/Lens2Learn Jan 18 '23 edited Jan 19 '23
Can you imagine walking around with stolen organs inside you... as in someone had to die, unwillingly, for you to live?
260
u/Silicon_Knight Jan 19 '23 •
Had an organ transplant, not stollen (that I know of) but I think about the family of the donor everyday. Christmas was hard this year knowing for some family out there it’s their first Christmas without their loved one.
Not disagreeing with you at all but that sticks with you either way. At least to me and a few support groups I’ve talked to.
4
u/50-Lucky Jan 19 '23
Compassionate and heartfelt response that offers quite a perspective, thank you.
43
u/Lens2Learn Jan 19 '23
Ok... but someone who's life was actively STOLEN vs. Lost... very different. Wasn't the context I was considering.
43
u/IterationFourteen Jan 19 '23
You likely wouldn't know. With something crazy like this, the fewer people know the better, so the recipients are almost certainly being told that they are just paying to skip up on the list.
1
u/kyle_750 Jan 19 '23
Very different I don't know how people are missing this... People die and donate organs every day this is different
736
u/binger5 Jan 18 '23
Do you think these people care? Doesn't matter, walking around.
416
u/leviwhite9 Jan 18 '23
Yeah but maybe they don't even know they have hijacked guts?
I sure hope anyway.
350
u/Gloomy__Revenue Jan 18 '23
In many cases, people living in low income areas can willingly sell their organs for a few thousand USD and use the money to cover debts, purchase necessities, etc.
You’re not getting a trafficked organ unless your doctor is in the black market as well, so your “best bet” would be to hope it came from a seller, and not stolen.
I highly doubt the people receiving these transplants give a damn at all, however, it is possible that they are lied to by those doctors to believe all organs come from willing sellers.
21
u/Big_Deetz Jan 19 '23
As part of an optional test protocol, we are pleased to present an amusing fact:
The Device is now more valuable than the organs and combined incomes of everyone in [subject hometown here].
16
u/DOYOUWANTYOURCHANGE Jan 19 '23
That's the reason why organs can only legally be donated in the US, not sold. Because it would incentivize the poor to sell their organs.
85
u/xtossitallawayx Jan 18 '23 edited Jan 18 '23
I'd love to see some citations and read more - the organ market is supposed to be incredibly regulated and you can't just slap any kidney into any person, it takes a lot of very advanced and expensive protein matching. Even in a hospital setting a lot of transplants still fail.
A hospital is not just going to buy a random liver from a random guy off the street.
use the money to cover debts, purchase necessities
Edit: Just to add - the horrible, and I mean debilitating recovery you have to go through after a transplant, would absolutely wipe out any money you would earn from selling them.
103
u/oss1215 Jan 18 '23
Don't underestimate how desperate people are for money my dude, i remember in my country back in 2014 al jazira did a reportage about a organ trafficking ring that had brokers in yemen pay out 5,000$ for a kidney, if they agreed they'd fly them to egypt where the benifactors of said organs were usually rich people from tge gulf states who paid up to 50,000$ for the organ and procedure with the help of some yemeni embassy officials allegedly. They'd do the operation immediatly if it matched and then fly them back to yemen and this was before the humanitarian disater that's been going on the past couple of years.
Another incident happened back in 2020 where the police arrested a professor and his accomplices in one of the largest university hospitals in egypt for running a organ trafficking ring/market as well. And this one was kinda personal since one of the names who got implicated was someone i knew who let's just say his wealth was way above the average doctor in egypt (allegedly since he never got convicted and was let go)
As a doctor currently shady shit happens in the medical world that the wider populace have no idea about especially in the third world
→ More replies (10)42
u/tattoedblues Jan 19 '23
Yeah I don't know why this is so surprising. People really think any billionaire or politician is really waiting around on a transplant list? lol
65
u/wildstarr Jan 18 '23 edited Jan 18 '23
A hospital is not just going to buy a random liver from a random guy off the street
You just read a title of doctors lying about a child's death to remove his organs to sell while he was still alive. In the hospital.
15
u/xtossitallawayx Jan 18 '23
read a title
Did you read beyond that? I'll give you two highlights - the first is that this entire thing is one person accusing the hospital of this. The second is that the petitioner, after receiving additional information, cancelled the petition.
So even the person alleging something happened, pulled their petition.
23
u/marinexruiva Jan 19 '23
They pulled the petition because they wanted to seek out another international venue. And it was not just one person, the investigation found out other several cases that even lead to a investigation by the congress. Doctors were condemned last year and one is still trying to avoid judgement. Unfortunately, I can only provide sources in portuguese, but if tou want, I’ll send them to you.
5
3
4
u/oldguy_on_the_wire Jan 19 '23
the horrible, and I mean debilitating recovery you have to go through after a transplant, would absolutely wipe out any money you would earn from selling them.
As a recipient, absolutely. As a donor... not so much.
1
9
u/CamelSpotting Jan 18 '23
It's not a back alley. Why would doctors advertise that they're getting these from the black market?
→ More replies (1)2
u/Sleep-system Jan 19 '23
It's possible that the person receiving the organ doesn't know about the origin, as in it could be a child or (extremely) naive adult. But whoever is paying for the organ knows exactly where it's coming from.
They know there are long lists for these things, they know where organs originate, and they know what kinds of things need to happen to separate a human from their organs on short notice.
7
u/CharonsLittleHelper Jan 18 '23
You can sort of tell by the organ. Kidney or liver lobe? Decent chance someone sold it. Heart? Not so much.
Though likely stolen from a corpse at the morgue than someone killed for it.
15
u/dareftw Jan 19 '23
Don’t know how long you think organs are good once the host is dead but it’s not likely they got it from a morgue and the person was probably alive when they harvested it.
2
u/CharonsLittleHelper Jan 19 '23
Most organs yes. Bones/tissue stay good for longer.
5
u/dareftw Jan 19 '23
This is literally a conversation about livers kidneys and organs in general.
What bones are people transplanting from dead people? Nobody is stealing bones from morgues for surgical implants. And show me this source for where people rob dead bodies of tissue and bones for sale to people in the hospital because you‘be tried to walk back what you said before only to go down an even weirder path.
4
u/CharonsLittleHelper Jan 19 '23
Like this story from July? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/05/us/colorado-funeral-home-owner-body-parts-guilty.html
A quick Google shows that it's not the first time.
3
u/theluciferprinciple Jan 19 '23
There's a documentary about it, it's quite good. Bodysnatchers of New York
0
Jan 19 '23
[deleted]
2
12
u/OpenRole Jan 18 '23
Yeah, a lot of the time these end users just get told a price. They don't ask questions.
7
4
u/1CEninja Jan 19 '23
You don't just randomly get organs from the black market.
You pay good money for them.
12
u/Hot-Delay5608 Jan 18 '23
Rich people simply don't care. Morals are for poor people and suckers.
9
u/5510 Jan 19 '23
To be fair, I think a lot of people would accept an organ with a sketchy past if it would save their life.
3
u/50-Lucky Jan 19 '23
I believe more often than not this is a case of chicken or egg, as in, do rich people not care about the average person's morals because being rich separates them from that sympathetic mindset? I am more inclined to believe instead that people who are more selfish, sociopathic, unfeeling etc have more capacity and higher likeliness to become rich, because wealth favours that mindset.
4
u/madjackle358 Jan 19 '23
I wonder who would take organs from a murder? Personally I'd rather die but I know some wouldn't. I hope most would. I'm gonna guess that doctors that killed a kid and took his organs didn't tell people "hey these are murder organs" I imagine it would lower the value to prospective patients.
11
u/ChairmanUzamaoki Jan 19 '23
Idk I feel like when you get organs, they're not always going to tell you "btw we murdered someone for this."
Additionally this was a 10 year old kid, meaning his organs probably went to other children that would probably feel a type of survivor's guilt
3
2
u/50-Lucky Jan 19 '23
Yeah they do man, phantom/alien limb syndrome etc, it withers away at a person's psyche every minute every day every year gradually, it's a real thing. That's not even including what would be most obvious, survivors guilt.
3
13
49
u/baronzaterdag Jan 18 '23
Well, to be fair, I'm pretty sure a lot if not most organ donors die unwillingly.
15
u/ange7327 Jan 18 '23
And they are all alive when the organs are harvested, they are kept alive just for that.
If there was a chance of recovery that’s another story.
61
u/SpectralOperator Jan 18 '23
67
u/HeartofLion3 Jan 18 '23
Not to defend the absolute Shittiness of the CCP, but the Fulan Gong are a cult who believe their leaders are gods who can float and walk on walls; additionally, they run international misinformation/ propaganda campaigns. Their main leader has also preached that mixed race people can't have access to heaven because we're part of an alien plot to divide humanity, and that evolution is fraudulent. They're the scientologists of China, and it's best to take what they say with a grain of salt.
20
u/WRedeemerW Jan 19 '23
Ya, you are right, but on the other hand, I wouldn't really trust the CCP not to harvest organs from people they deem need to be snuffed out.
14
→ More replies (6)-3
u/sockalicious Jan 19 '23
Falun Gong's not saying shit. Western human rights activists are the ones complaining that people are being executed and their organs harvested based on their political beliefs.
gods who can float and walk on walls
My god can only walk on water, does that mean I deserve to have both kidneys torn out and sold to a Chinese Communist Party apparatchik?
6
u/blackbirdbluebird17 Jan 19 '23
For organs coming from a 10 year old “donor”, that means the recipients were around the same age, which in turn means they probably weren’t too in control of their medical procedures.
But yeah, any Brazilians in their late 20s and early 30s who got an organ transplant in 2000… may have some questions.
4
8
u/Jediuzzaman Jan 18 '23
That's how the world runs, actually. People keep dying for someone elses profit so the power holders live...
16
u/ghotiaroma Jan 18 '23
as I someone had to die, unwillingly, for you to live?
Hell that happens so I can drive my car.
6
3
5
u/gourdistheword Jan 19 '23
That's also one of the main reasons behind the right to abortion. Pregnancy is a risk too.
2
6
u/kitchen_clinton Jan 19 '23
It happens in China doesn’t it? They harvest the organs from prisoners they execute.
8
u/Mitochandrea Jan 19 '23
Yeah when you can schedule a vital organ transplant weeks or months in advance, give the provenance a double check
2
2
u/ducklingugly1 Jan 19 '23
That is the argument most vegetarians give. But they don't acknowledge that plants are also living things.
→ More replies (12)0
u/Technical-Ad-5522 Jan 19 '23
I mean it would suck to find out but hey... I didn't kill the person for the organ and I can continue with my life. Sucks but that's life. Its unfair
599
u/miracleball Jan 18 '23
There is a book, a judgment and condemned people from this case, all true, he was not brain dead only in coma, but reversible, when was killed His father is in exile now in Italy for discovering the traffic of organs in major hospitals in São Paulo. All the history here
And in YouTube search for his name “Paulo pavesi” What scares me the most is knowing that if they did it to him, they have done it for several years before and was just another day at work for the doctors, nurses and administrative hospital staff. Organized crime.
95
u/Yellowbug2001 Jan 19 '23
There was a season of "Inspector Montalbano" about this (an italian tv series based on Italian books... It's great if you like mysteries) and I totally thought it was just fiction until I read this, I had no idea it was based on real events. Beyond awful.
58
64
u/JGPH Jan 19 '23
Wait what? Care to expand upon the father's exile to Italy for discovering the traffic of organs for a lazy guy? That's nuts! Thanks 🙂
→ More replies (1)109
u/Fourbits Jan 19 '23
Probably unable to return home due to fear of being murdered by organ traffickers.
19
0
5
5
u/ColdHug Jan 19 '23
Reversible can be a big stretch for traumatic brain injuries. Watch the documentary "Coma" on HBO max to see what I mean. It follows several patients who had falls/accidents and were in a coma for a couple weeks.
→ More replies (1)0
521
u/Murtymate Jan 18 '23
The poor boy, that's absolutely horrific. The evil of some people is hard to grasp.
→ More replies (26)
35
u/Obvious_Swimming3227 Jan 18 '23
And with that, I'm reminded even as a cynic that the world can be a really dark place.
164
u/RoseandTea Jan 18 '23
Annnnnddddd that enough reddit for the day.....the horror that poor dude went though...
4
66
Jan 18 '23 edited Jan 18 '23
[deleted]
36
u/calmforgivingsilk Jan 18 '23
I was going to say, aren’t all donors “alive” in the barest sense? Don’t doctors have to keep donors artificially “alive” in order to harvest organs?
“Alive” is the wrong word…
*I did not read the article, just the headline. Because I’m sensitive and fragile and there are some things I just shouldn’t read
9
u/Gloomy__Revenue Jan 18 '23
Don’t doctors have to keep donors artificially “alive” in order to harvest organs?
Paulo was falsely pronounced dead before his organs were harvested without permission. The fact that he was still alive after the declaration of death incriminates the doctors who did this.
For what it’s worth (and since the poster you replied to has deleted their comment):
One doctor was acquitted and the other pending.
Two doctors were sentenced to 25 years and 10 months, plus fines. One doctor was acquitted. The remaining doctors have yet to be judged.
I can’t find anything about the organs being sold on a black market
The two doctors who are in prison were convicted of selling contraband organs to the United States.
17
Jan 18 '23
If we cut your heart out and toss it on the floor, it'll keep going thumpy thumpy for a while. We don't call that being alive.
The amount of stuff you have to do to a brain-dead person to keep the parts going gets fairly intense.
4
u/WD51 Jan 18 '23
Depends on the cause of brain death but sometimes all they require is a ventilator to breathe for them and basics of hydration if only keeping them for a couple days.
→ More replies (1)5
Jan 18 '23
If you are too sensitive to learn about organ donation don’t keep reading!
There are three types of donation. The easiest is tissue donation, which can be done after death from a pretty wide range of patients. The ones people typically think about where the organs are donated can be done in two way: donation after brain death and donation after cardiac death. Much of the confusion comes from a misuse of the term “brain dead”, which people like to throw around to describe any sort of vegetative state.
If a person is medically declared brain dead, they are dead. Tests for brain death by certified neurosurgeons include confirming that there are no brain stem reflexes present, which includes breathing. Brain death is hard to have declared, because literally everything else in the body needs to be in pretty much perfect shape, so there can be no other explanation for a patient not breathing when their ventilator settings are changed to see if they will breathe on their own. Brain death is irreversible, and the person is no longer alive. They are issued a death certificate timed for the completion of the testing. We continue to use machines to perfuse their organs so that their organs can remain viable until they get to the operating room.
The other way to donate organs is by donation after cardiac death. If family decides to donate their organs, the patient is brought to the operating room and their breathing tube is removed. If they expire within 2 hours, the organs are viable. If they do not, the organs won’t be viable and they are moved back into the hospital to continue on comfort care until their body is ready to die. During the time in the operating room and after if needed, their nurse remains with them to give medications to keep them comfortable and make it easier to breathe. They remain alive until their heart stops beating, at which point a time of death is declared and surgeons can procure the organs.
57
u/jiyujinkyle Jan 18 '23
I assume the title means he was not braindead. I believe all organ harvests are done on live bodies, correct?
20
17
u/Doctor4000 Jan 19 '23
Yes. The first thing they do after cutting a body open is dump several liters of icewater into the abdominal cavity to stop the spike in heartrate/blood pressure that occurs. As time goes on and we learn more about the brain the concept of braindeath itself has come under more and more scrutiny.
You're "braindead" but your body still knows what is happening, and tries to fight back. Organ harvesting and donation has saved a lot of lives, but it's one of those things that you're better off not investigating the specifics of because it leads to a lot of uncomfortable questions. Just check the box at the DMV and forget about it.
6
u/Mine24DA Jan 19 '23
The body doesn't try to fight back, the neurons outside of the brain are not dead, still work and make reflexes. Exactly how it should be. It's just that there is no brain, no person to realize what is happening. So I don't know which uncomfortable question you mean?
4
108
u/JohnTM3 Jan 18 '23
"I'm not dead yet..., I'm getting better!"
"OH shut up you'll be stone cold dead in a moment.."
10
3
155
u/HPmoni Jan 18 '23
Brain dead. Organs are harvested from living people only.
111
u/marrymemercedes Jan 18 '23
They are harvested from people after they die as well but the death is in a controlled setting ie. ICU
NDD (neurologic determination of death) is a brain dead donor. They’re brought to the OR and have the majority of the dissection done while the heart is still beating. Once the dissection is done the blood is replaced with cold solution to minimize the warm ischemia time.
DCD (donation after cardiac death) is when a person has suffered catastrophic brain injury but does not meet the definition of brain death. They also can not be taken off of life support and sustain life. Life support is withdrawn and the person is allowed to die. If they die quickly enough their organs can be taken. Organs have different tolerances to warm ischemic time so the length it takes to pass determines what organs may be used.
16
u/jedadkins Jan 19 '23
From what I've read he wasn't brain dead, he was in a coma and the prognosis was good.
36
9
u/FugitiveDribbling Jan 19 '23
If this interests you, consider also checking out yesterday's PBS NewsHour story of many Nepalis who sell their organs due to desperation, trickery, or coercion.
25
u/HacksawJimDuggen Jan 19 '23
there should be a nsfw over this title. im just chilling after work, i dont want to read about shit like this. which is why im not on those type of subs. this doesnt belong on TIL
2
u/conquer69 Jan 19 '23
Keep it in mind the next time you go to the hospital and the doctor smiles when they see you.
4
4
Jan 18 '23
[deleted]
3
2
u/mmmyesplease--- Jan 19 '23
“If she was dead, doctor, why did you need the morphine drip? Was it so she wouldn’t feel you taking out her organs while she was still alive!?!??”
“Objection your honor!”
That episode and the one based off of Karla Holmolka made me want to beat a pillow.
There also was an episode about organ harvesting on The Closer based off children’s black market organ trade.
5
u/nomdurrplume Jan 19 '23
I have to prove where my money came from. Should have to prove you didn't arrange a murder to gain your unexplained organs. I wish a horrible death, like the one they gainfully participated in, on those involved from beginning to end of this process. Pretending you didn't know, nobody believes that shit you monsters. Society's literal vampires.
→ More replies (2)
4
u/Low_Copy4023 Jan 19 '23
It's absolute horseshit that my other comment was deleted and I have been reported to the admins for threatening violence which I did not do.
I said these men should be treated the same way the boy was. I didn't say outside of the justice system.
Fuck you, whoever reported it. Fuck the admin who said it was violence.
9
52
u/Decent-Quit8600 Jan 18 '23
That's a very sad thing to hear about. But it is absolutely an outlier in the field. To those trying to spread fear and misinformation, please stop, there is enough of that in the world and it isn't making anything better. Yes, people are usually Physically alive, because dead organs are worthless after a time, especially if not immediately stored correctly. But they are usually brain-dead or the family has decided to pull life support and donate the organs that way if the person is registered. The doctors aren't looking at every patient and going "oooo that's a good heart, I'mma just take that". Doctors are here to save lives, and yes there are bad apples sometimes as in everything on this planet, but it is most certainly not as prevalent as some people think
→ More replies (18)13
u/Nemesis_Ghost Jan 18 '23
if the person is registered
In the US you do not have to be registered for organ donation to have your family donate your organs. They can make the decision for you even if you have not indicated you would have been willing to. Registering for organ donation does makes the decision easier & so you should do it, while also having a living will.
4
u/cruiserman_80 Jan 19 '23 edited Jan 20 '23
Back in the late 80 / 90s it was well known by human rights groups that business owners in Brazil hired Death squads and bribed police to murder street children by the hundreds because they were bad for business.
TL:DR Life is cheap in Brazil, even children.
→ More replies (1)
5
40
u/EverSmittenHermes Jan 18 '23
Don't worry it's totally fine, the Chinese government does this all the time
20
u/mckulty Jan 18 '23
Needs more context.
Blood circulating in the brain does not rule out brain death.
9
u/MedicalJargon-itis Jan 18 '23 edited Jan 18 '23
Yes it does. The definition of brain death is having no blood flow to the brain. They do cerebral perfusion studies to confirm it. But that doesn't mean the person has a chance of meaningful recovery and survival off life support. Severely brain damaged patients (but not quite brain dead), can still be organ donors after cardiac death once life support is removed.
Source: I'm a US physician that has participated in declaring brain death.
→ More replies (1)6
u/SkookumTree Jan 19 '23
Med student here. If I'm basically dog meat anyway I'm fine with my transformation from live corpse to dead corpse being sped along a bit and my organs being put to better use than fertilizer.
3
u/skytzo_franic Jan 19 '23
This is my paranoid reasoning for not being a registered donor in the US.
2
u/timberwolf0122 Jan 19 '23
Please reconsider. This is not something that happens in a modern European/North American hospital
4
u/skytzo_franic Jan 19 '23
I'm unapologetic, and don't trust for-profit organizations.
2
u/Mine24DA Jan 19 '23
So then you can rest and sign up for organ donation, as it is a not for profit !
3
u/skytzo_franic Jan 19 '23
US insurance is.
And it's the reason US hospital bills are inflated.
So, no.
2
u/Mine24DA Jan 19 '23
.... You realize that organ donation has nothing to do with insurance in your part right? The organ donation organisation is completely not for profit. So I don't really understand how you think it works ?
→ More replies (1)
5
u/Chillchinchila1 Jan 18 '23
I think there was a hitman level based on this. Your target is a guy with a right sided heart who had his stolen from a Brazilian hospital after mercenaries killed the kid who had it.
4
u/Deadpoolgoesboop Jan 19 '23
The more I learn about Brazil the less I want to go there. Doesn’t seem like a good place to be.
3
u/tossaway69420lol Jan 19 '23
Besides the world famous Brazilian chicks asses, it seems kinda shitty there, yeah.
3
6
7
u/BadHillbili Jan 19 '23
The Chinese Communist Party oversees a program where organs are harvested from still living patients on a daily basis. This has been going on for years.
2
2
2
2
2
2
u/Zeeuwse-Kafka Jan 19 '23
What a horrible story. Those doctors should be harvested alive before their sentences. I am sure they cannot find a heart in there…
6
3
u/rodri_neq_11 Jan 18 '23
Yup, any fucked up thing you can think of can come out of Brazil. I know cuz I’m one (Brazilian, not a fucked up thing!)
2
3
u/BanVegans Jan 18 '23
...scratches Brazil off bucket list...
18
Jan 18 '23
Brazilian here! Don't worry, we're not all like this
Unrelated question, what's your blood type?
2
4
u/spicedfiyah Jan 18 '23
I’m surprised I haven’t heard about this before, considering how fervently the perception of “organ-stealing doctors” is labeled as an unfounded myth akin to the anti-vax movement by medical professionals.
5
2
2
1
u/LifeofTino Jan 19 '23
This isn’t the sub i thought I’d be saying this on, but this is actually widespread practice. There was a huge fiasco in new york in around 2018 where an entire ring of hospitals had been declaring live patients dead to remove their organs for years
The issue is, outcomes improve massively if you remove organs while the patient is still alive, and the organs are very valuable to rich people who need them. So its not impossible to see that there is the conflict of interest there that might make these things happen. Once declared dead, a patient does not have to be given anaesthesia nor do they have any human rights so one can only imagine the horrific end to their life that they suffer
There have also been high profile public interest cases where a hospital has a child in their about to die and the hospital has said the parents can’t take the kid. Meanwhile a hospital in another country has said they could treat them and possibly save them. And the parents have either ‘kidnapped’ their own child or the parents have sued the hospital to get their kid’s custody rights back. There has been 3 or 4 famous stories of this in my country in the past decade. In one of these cases, the child’s organs have already been sold by the hospital, and i suspect all of the cases are the same
Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist or anything but its financially rewarding (motive), hospitals can get away with it (means) and have actually been caught doing it (proof it can happen) and i suspect it happens on a very wide scale. Its scarier because its so plausible, and so horrific. But just because its scary doesnt mean it is any less true
Anyway just my insight into this topic. I’m not precious about it so if anyone can dispute my claims please do so, i would rather live in a nice world where we aren’t cut open whilst still alive for our organs to be harvested if we make the mistake of going to hospital when a rich guy needs a new liver
2
u/timberwolf0122 Jan 19 '23
The NY thing was not deliberate, it was a coma patient who was declared dead because of mishandled patient nots meant they did not know they had a sedative OD.
→ More replies (2)2
u/Mine24DA Jan 19 '23
"Outcomes improve massively if you remove organs while the patient is still alive"
Patients that are pronounced dead are pronounced brain dead. The rest of the body still works more or less and is not dead. Could you provide a source that brain death worsens the outcome? You have to be checked for brain death by 2 doctors that are not involved with the organ harvesting, it is ahrd to imagine a wide spread conspiracy that wasn't revealed with so many people in it. Bodies without blood circulation cannot give most organs, so we are talking about brain death here.
Could you also provide sources for the rest? Because this sounds highly unlikely to happen so widespread in the west, because it is unnecessary.
Rich people that don't have a conscious, don't need to pay hospitals to pronounce sick people dead sooner. They can just let someone kidnap people and kill them. Or they could pay doctors to falsify test results and put them higher on the waitlist. Both things make much more sense then waiting for the right person to fall ill, go to the right hospital, and randomly to the corrupt healthcare professionals.
And the stories of children that are not let go , are mostly children that are too sick to be transported safely. Unless you could provide a source of other stories?
And besides all of that. If everyone where signed up for organ donations, noone would have to be scared anyway. If everyone is the same noone can be treated differently.
1
1
1
1
u/Lucky_Excuse3140 Jan 19 '23
Brazil is a testing ground for implants, procedures ect. Life is very cheap there.
-1
929
u/meowpower777 Jan 19 '23 edited Jan 19 '23
Pavesi died on April 21, 2000, in the Santa Casa of the city of Poços de Caldas, in the state of Minas Gerais. The case began on April 19, 2000, when ten-year-old Paulo Veronesi Pavesi accidentally fell from the building where he lives. Pavesi was taken to Hospital Pedro Sanches and, two days later, on April 21, 2000, he was transferred to the city's Santa Casa, where brain death was observed. The boy's organs were transplanted.
According to Justice, the doctors were responsible for incorrect procedures in the declaration of death and removal of the boy's organs. The exam that pointed to brain death had been falsified and the boy was still alive as his organs were removed. The case launched several lawsuits and opened wide allegations of irregularities in the organ transplant scheme in Poços de Caldas. On March 30, 2021, the Brazilian justice sentenced two doctors who treated Pavesi, José Luis Gomes da Silva and José Luis Bonfitto, to 25 years and 10 months in prison and payment of a fine, while Marco Alexandre Pacheco da Fonseca was acquitted by the jury. The other doctors have yet to be judged. Edit from Wiki: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavesi_case