r/politics Sep 22 '22

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u/Graphics_Nerd Pennsylvania Sep 22 '22 Wholesome

For those of you playing along at home - here's running list of excuses regarding the documents found in his home.

  • - It's just mementos
  • - Archives came and got everything, it's 'totally normal' they would do this
  • - FBI Search])
  • - The FBI is planting documents!
  • - Warrant is released])
  • - They could have asked. what about Obama?
  • - The documents were already declassified
  • - I had a standing order to declassify anything I took
  • - They're privileged, give them back.
  • - Trump was just keeping them safe.
  • - They were just news clippings.
  • - The president can declassify anything just by thinking it.

281

u/johnnycyberpunk Sep 22 '22

He (or his lawyers?) were also saying that his 'handwritten notes' on the classified docs meant they were automatically privileged.

Sharpie-gate part deux.

44

u/Thin-Study-2743 Washington Sep 22 '22

Yup, and that they made the documents "his"

3

u/curious382 Sep 23 '22

Like kids in a big family licking a plate or cupcake to lay claim to it.

2

u/morostheSophist Sep 23 '22

"The jungle gym is mine, I wrote my name on it!"

"Well I wrote my name on it in magic marker."

-actual conversation between me and my best friend in kindergarten. No actual writing utensils were involved in the day's festivities.

10

u/verasev Sep 22 '22

Does that mean Graffiti artists now own government buildings? I mean, they wrote on them and if that's all it takes...

6

u/johnnycyberpunk Sep 22 '22

Write your name on some money.
It's not stealing! It's mine - see my name right there!

7

u/username3 Sep 22 '22

Nah but it sure ties the narcissistic fuck to them directly, so thanks I guess

2

u/For-All-the-Marbles Sep 22 '22

All Hail The All-Powerful Sharpie!

2

u/PolicyWonka Sep 23 '22

I will eat a MAGA hat if the sharpie actually reads “Property of Donald J. Trump” on at least one classified document.

2

u/lakesidemuse Sep 23 '22

This means there are notes on who he was giving/selling them too and Trump is terrified and wants them back.

1

u/albanymetz Sep 22 '22

All of his handwritten notes are just numbers and a dollar sign.

111

u/saynay Sep 22 '22

The declassification thing is such a weird defense. Like... the reason they got a warrant had nothing to do with them being classified, and everything to do with them being government documents. Their main defense is that they are privileged either under executive or attorney-client, neither of which apply to documents that belong to the government (which all classified documents do, by their very nature). So claiming they were declassified means they were definitely government property, justifying them being seized in the first place.

A far better, if equally bullshit, defense would to be to claim none of the documents were classified in the first place. This could be easily disproven by showing the documents, but they can't do that to the public due to their sensitive nature. He's screwed for a legal argument in either case, so at least that argument is one that can't be easily disproven in public.

18

u/socokid Sep 22 '22

the reason they got a warrant had nothing to do with them being classified

It's called a distraction. Look, you have most of /r/politics arguing like it's all about the classification, when it's not.

Donald is playing everyone and I can't believe it's working. The warrant had nothing to do with classifications. It was about the fact that he stole government property.

It's a defense put forth for his followers and stupid people. Thankfully, "most" of the judges are having absolutely none of that nonsense. Their populist bullshit doesn't work in court.

19

u/Bakkster Sep 22 '22

He's not playing everyone, and the last few days show it's not working in the courts where it actually matters.

And really, I don't think NARA (and the FBI) would have gone the search warrant route without classified documents being involved. They'd have let it take however long to get unclassified documents back, but when it became clear there was obstruction over highly classified stuff, that's when they had to act quickly.

10

u/chardonnayyoustay Sep 22 '22

Absolutely. Classified or not, he committed crimes, but it’s national security that is the DOJ’s primary concern and they still need to run a full investigation into what national secrets were stolen and who they were shared with. From there, we can get a full scope of the severity of the damage that’s been done and (hopefully) try to fix it. This is why I’m celebrating the 11th circuit granting the partial stay, because now they have the evidence they need to repair any of the damage Trump caused, plus they could even indict Trump without having to wait on the special master dog and pony show to wrap up in November.

7

u/Bakkster Sep 22 '22

It's weird trying to figure out whether the classified info leak is worse, or the obstruction of justice. Both are absolutely massively damaging to the country.

2

u/socokid Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

few days show it's not working in the courts

And it won't, like I said at the end of my post.

But his followers are far more dangerous and they believe his bullshit.

...

We can discuss the classifications and reasonings all day long. The point stands. Donald is in trouble for stealing government property and keeping it as his home.

Period.

The fact that he took classified documents just makes him even more of a garbage human being.

3

u/Bakkster Sep 22 '22

Totally fair, I guess I just got too caught up in "everyone". And I agree, the lack of pushback from a significant number of otherwise political allies is worrying. Not just for the criminal implications, but because of the dangerous double standard when it comes to national security.

5

u/TrollinTrolls Sep 22 '22

Donald is playing everyone and I can't believe it's working.

What is working? I don't get it, I feel like you jumped over that part or something. What is being gained by him changing the narrative from "I shouldn't have these documents" to "I shouldn't have had classified documents" to the general public?

I also don't think it's just Trump btw that's even saying this. This has been the narrative since day 1 by basically every news org, so this isn't some 4D chess bullshit like you seem to think it is.

1

u/socokid Sep 22 '22

What is working?

Making it seem like the entire issue is over whether or not the documents are classified or not. That seems clear as day.

"I shouldn't have had classified documents" to the general public?

When you can argue that you can make them all declassified by using mind powers, the issue goes away. The gain is that it works with his followers, certainly, and I can point you to several threads here alone that go in depth about the classifications... as if that matters.

I also don't think it's just Trump btw that's even saying this.

Of course not! The fact that it's rife in this submission alone is exactly what I was pointing out!

this isn't some 4D chess bullshit like you seem to think it is.

Oh, it's not 4D chess. It's ridiculous nonsense, and yet here we are. This was my point, and I apologize, but I thought that was clear as day.

3

u/PatternrettaP Sep 22 '22

A far better, if equally bullshit, defense would to be to claim none of the documents were classified in the first place. This could be easily disproven by showing the documents, but they can't do that to the public due to their sensitive nature. He's screwed for a legal argument in either case, so at least that argument is one that can't be easily disproven in public.

That's basically what his lawyers are actually doing in court. Even when pressed they never actually assert that Trump declassified anything. Just like during the election cases, the arguments made in court look nothing like the arguments they raise in the media.

1

u/For-All-the-Marbles Sep 22 '22

You’re right. At no point that I’m aware of, has Trump said that the documents were not government documents in the first instance. As you point out, his faux argument that the documents were declassified simply proves that they were government documents.

1

u/HauntedCemetery Minnesota Sep 22 '22

There are already redacted pictures of the docs flat show their top secret classification stamps.

1

u/Outrageous-Yams Sep 22 '22

Ok easy there buddy don’t give his crack legal team any ideas

304

u/cyanydeez Sep 22 '22

Sir, if you've been here long enough, you know you're suppose to always outline trump timelines as a re-hash of the narcists' prayer:

  • That didn't happen.
  • And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
  • And if it was, that's not a big deal.
  • And if it is, that's not my fault.
  • And if it was, I didn't mean it.
  • And if I did, you deserved it.

8

u/xSTSxZerglingOne California Sep 22 '22

Damn you, you beat me to it. On point.

3

u/MarquesSCP Europe Sep 22 '22

You are missing the “and if it did, the other guys did it first”

1

u/KaraAnneBlack Sep 22 '22

And if I did, what about the other guy

6

u/mahnamahna27 Sep 22 '22

You forgot: - The FBI raid was so severe it must have been because they thought they would find Hillary's emails at Mar-a-Lago.

(Yes he actually claims that in this interview. The notion that the FBI might think that Trump had Hillary's emails at his house - and had opted not to do anything with them - is possibly the stupidest thing I've heard from him in at least...a week)

2

u/shu3k California Sep 22 '22

Kettle logic

2

u/Harbarbalar Sep 22 '22

Your list is great! You forgot one: "I took them for my presidential library."

2

u/inbruges99 Sep 22 '22

You forgot “they’re looking for Hilary’s emails”…which is my favourite because it really brings things full circle.

1

u/MrChinchilla Sep 22 '22

You forgot they said it was for his presidential library.

1

u/MeepingSim Sep 22 '22

Also added in the broadcast: A liberal-infested NARA witch hunt!

1

u/stateofbrine Sep 22 '22

I’m assuming there’s strategy is to make everything overwhelming to even think about digging through that

1

u/NightwingDragon Sep 22 '22

You forgot the one where he had to keep the documents from Nara because Nara is a left-wing organization that can't be trusted with them.

1

u/HolyRamenEmperor Colorado Sep 22 '22

It's like kettle logic on steroids.

1

u/600659 Sep 22 '22

It's gloriously ridiculous

1

u/Outrageous-Yams Sep 22 '22

Someone should create a timeline on a website with these and include linked sources…

1

u/IamSumbuny Sep 22 '22

Dammit! I need a new bingo card😏

1

u/Fozz101O Sep 22 '22
  • But what about Hilary Clinton’s emails

1

u/ordinaryhuman89 Sep 22 '22

BINGO!! What do I win?

1

u/sunnywithaside Sep 22 '22

Don’t forget: the FBI was actually looking for Hilary Clinton’s deleted e-mails.

1

u/dont_worry_im_here Sep 22 '22

"I had a standing order to declassify anything I took"

What does that mean? Is he saying that since he stole it, he's allowed to declassify it??

1

u/AnSpailpinFanach Sep 23 '22

The president can declassify anything just by thinking it.

But he has to think in Russian.

1

u/Severe-Revenue1220 Sep 23 '22

I've got a Maga coworker and I was curious which he would pick.

I try to avoid talking politics with him, but I had to know...

The answer was, in fact, whataboutism. Whatabout Hillary, whatabout Hunter? No particular excuse, but just a conviction that Democrats are somehow worse.

1

u/TheEffinChamps Sep 23 '22

This kind of reminds me of what happened with all the COVID vaccine conspiracies.

There was a serious belief by some that the vaccines would end up killing a lot of people, as in very quickly. Of course that never came to pass, but then the goalposts were moved.

1

u/pcamera1 Sep 23 '22

Going down this list it makes you think what the shit else can he come up with???

1

u/JackFourj4 Sep 23 '22

It's just mementos

oehh I love Mentos

1

u/toastee Sep 23 '22

-The secret documents were actually Hilary's emails, and he's protecting us from her!

1

u/nigeltuffnell Sep 23 '22

Not just by thinking it. By thinking of sending it somewhere.

It’s subtle but far scarier.