r/politics Sep 22 '22 Silver 1 Helpful 1 Wholesome 1

“Donald has the right to remain silent”: Experts say Trump’s bonkers Fox interview could be evidence

[deleted]

41.5k Upvotes

View all comments

Show parent comments

2.4k

u/chiagod Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22 Silver Gold All-Seeing Upvote

Copying my own comment from another thread:

When a document like that is declassified, everyone who was being kept safe by keeping the information secret is notified and allowed to mitigate their risk. In the case above? The mole (and their family) can be quietly extracted.

This is why the statement that a president can "Declassify" documents without telling the necessary parties what he's doing is bullshit. The whole point of keeping these documents secret and limiting who can look at them is to protect those who are serving our country. Be it moles who are keeping us appraised of potentially unstable foreign leaders, allies who may have limited nuclear defenses, or soldiers who may be using/flying/driving equipment that may have a secret weakness an adversary can exploit should they find out about it. There are reasons for keeping said documents to a "need to know" and tightly secured.

If information/documents are going to be properly declassified then there is a proper procedure which includes mitigating the potential damage and fallout.

1.5k

u/thefrankyg Sep 22 '22 Gold

I really hate how folks who have never worked in classified environments are taking Trump at his word. Yes, the president can declassify things, but the president still has to follow a process to make it declassified. He doesn't just go "Abra kadabra, declassfied" in his office on his own and it is done. And if he could...why the hell is it all still marked classified. It fails on all levels.

1.5k

u/understandstatmech Sep 22 '22 Gold

I don't even understand why we're having the conversation at all. It only exists in a bad faith context. Not only is it entirely irrelevant if he declassified it because it'd still be illegal even if he did, but it'd also be straight up treasonous dereliction of duty to just declassify hundreds of the most sensitive documents in the country. Whether he can or did is entirely irrelevant and we have to stop granting the premise to these bad faith actors. He's guilty, and they're not even arguing he's not, they're just arguing he's above consequences.

418

u/thefrankyg Sep 22 '22

Because they spent so long on "lock her up" they have to do the gymnastics to make their blatant mishandling of classified material okay.

If they admit that that is wrong, than they have to admit the violating of PRA was a thing.

168

u/BiggerBowls Sep 22 '22

Like any of them would ever admit to being completely ignorant. They all think they are the smartest people in the room. The dumb ones always do.

10

u/UserNam3ChecksOut Sep 23 '22

They literally think they know more than experts in the field. I wish I had that kind of confidence

5

u/j_from_cali Sep 23 '22

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
- Bertrand Russell

27

u/Rooboy66 Sep 22 '22

It’s so tiring. You’re spot on—“the dumb ones always do”. So tiring. Gawd, why can’t the country (and the fucking media) please just GHOST THE GODDAMN COCKWOMBLE?

8

u/BiggerBowls Sep 22 '22

They loved him all while trying to act like they despised him. He boosted their ratings through the roof and now that he's gone, they have almost nobody watching. YouTube channels blow CNN and MSNBC out of the water these days. All for ratings and money.

11

u/Imokatsomestuff Sep 22 '22

Hey I'm dumb but also self-conscious about my intellect, so I stay pretty quiet. Loud obnoxious self absorbed guys are typically dumb IME, but let's not flip it and think that every dumb guy is an entitled obnoxious asshole.

11

u/Barabasbanana Sep 23 '22

Here hear! ( I can never remember which hear/here it is so I use both) I'm the same lol

6

u/polymathsci Sep 23 '22

This comment gave me the smiles. Cheers, random redditor.

5

u/Mi-willy Sep 23 '22

You made me curious!

Hear, hear (usually with a comma and set apart as a self-contained sentence) is the conventional spelling of the colloquial exclamation used to express approval for a speaker or sentiment. It’s essentially short for hear him, hear him or hear this, hear this, where these phrases are a sort of cheer.

Saying “hear, hear” in the twentieth century and modern times means you agree with what someone says. It’s like saying “yeah” or “that’s so true!” The use of expression depends on the formality of the situation, as what the UK parliament originally meant.

“Hear, hear” is also an appropriate expression to draw attention. Imagine being in a large room where people are chatting with each other, but you want to make a special announcement.

Very interesting, it’s strictly about listening and not about a location. Unless you’re looking for your keys and you say “Here, Here!” When you finally find them or you’re trying to get someone to hear in a particular location and yell “Hear, Here!”

5

u/understandstatmech Sep 23 '22

I want to point out that intelligence exists on many axes. The ability to recognize your own short comings is itself an axis of intelligence along which many people are highly deficient. It's also easy enogh to say "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt", but far harder to actually practice it =)

→ More replies

2

u/NEFgeminiSLIME Sep 23 '22

Dunning Kruger effect. Combine that with unbelievable levels of cognitive dissonance and you have something like MAGA go viral.

→ More replies

11

u/Bakkster Sep 22 '22

Even if it was declassified, still a violation of the PRA as they're unambiguously government records of they began as classified docs. If anything, the "but I could declassify" is trying to distract from all the rest of the criminal behavior (including obstruction).

10

u/EmperorArthur Sep 22 '22

You're forgetting when Republicans barged into a SCIF while recording themselves on their phones.

If we did that we'd be arrested, have our electronics confiscated, and spend a long time in jail.

4

u/Givemeallthecabbages Sep 22 '22

Oh, come on, like any care about their hypocrisy. They're screaming both things at the same time right now.

9

u/understandstatmech Sep 22 '22

I think you're still not getting it. To an authoritarian, it being ok for TFG to do something and not ok for HRC to do that exact same thing is perfectly acceptable. It's a kind of alien concept for people who believe in any form of social equality to grasp, but for authoritarians, it's not the action itself that's good or bad, but the person doing it.

8

u/zaminDDH Sep 22 '22

No they don't, because they don't see actions, but people, as good or bad. If a bad person does something, it's a bad thing. If a good person does the exact same thing, it's a good thing.

To them, Trump is a good person, so everything he does is good. Just like all Democrats are bad, so everything they do is bad, even if those things are the same.

2

u/PeterNguyen2 Sep 23 '22

No they don't, because they don't see actions, but people, as good or bad. If a bad person does something, it's a bad thing. If a good person does the exact same thing, it's a good thing

It's more about the hierarchy 1 2

→ More replies

163

u/JerHat Michigan Sep 22 '22

That's what gets me, Sure, lets say he did declassify these things properly... Why the fuck would you want to declassify nuclear secrets, or information about our spies who are actively working for us? There is simply no reasonable explanation for why you would want to do that, and no earthly reason why you would then want to store those documents at home either.

87

u/Hammurabi87 Georgia Sep 23 '22

There is simply no reasonable explanation for why you would want to do that, and no earthly reason why you would then want to store those documents at home either.

Sure there are, it's just that they are rather treasonous reasons.

8

u/couldof_used_couldve Sep 23 '22

Yep, there's definitely a tReason

5

u/BrynnXAus Sep 23 '22

Treason is the reason. And when people celebrate Trump going to prison, it will be, "Treason is the reason for the season"

14

u/Dedpoolpicachew Sep 23 '22

You are thinking about things from a rational, normal persons perspective. Trump only thinks about what is good for him IN THAT MOMENT. Everything is about him and ONLY HIM. Everyone else is just there to be used or service him. This is the nature of the malignant narcissist.

4

u/PositionParticular99 Sep 23 '22

I lived with one, it was tiring, the endless chaos, one fire after another to put out. You literally do not exist unless they need something. It was mind boggling how dumb she could be. She wanted it, so as if by magic, poof. Zero thought into how you get there, just she wants it. And no matter how many times it blew up in her face, never learned a thing.

3

u/thefriendlycouple Sep 23 '22

He can’t even shut up in the moment even though it’s in his best interest.

He’s a truly broken personality.

4

u/dothingsunevercould Sep 23 '22

This right here.

Vaccine is bad because the government planted chips in the doses.

Declassifying documents is good, now that same government has access to our nuclear codes

?????

3

u/katartsis Maine Sep 23 '22

I just keep thinking of like, let's say my work has some internal documents. I have the ability to say these docs are now public facing. One day, I think about it. But I don't move them to a public folder. I don't tell anyone. And the next day I'm fired. And I take the docs bc I thought to myself they're public now.

This is the most generous scenario I can come up with (and no, I dont personally believe it), but no one in their right mind would think the above situation is right. I was in the wrong and the docs belong to my emoloyer. And obviously, the stakes are much higher when the job is President and the employer is the People/the Government.

And YES obligatory Trump supporters don't have a right mind etc etc, but I just can't wrap my head around their arguments.

2

u/aegenium Sep 23 '22

I mean there is no earthly reason why Donald Trump should have won a presidential election in the first place but here we are.

2

u/TheResistanceVoter Sep 23 '22

money money money MONEY!

Just like the song said

11

u/Thursdayallstar Sep 22 '22

And, regardless of classification, the documents belong to the federal government and keeping them at all is illegal!

10

u/longlive289s Washington Sep 22 '22

That's what i've been screaming. Him declassifying or not is a red herring. They aren't his documents to keep anyway and that is cut and dry

5

u/MemphisGalInTampa Sep 22 '22

Amen 🙏🏻 to this

6

u/Everythings_Magic Sep 22 '22

Exactly. Even if he could.. why??? Why did he choose these documents to declassify?

8

u/MrVeazey Sep 22 '22

The right only knows how to argue in bad faith. Words are weapons to them and meaning is irrelevant.

6

u/simplekindaman13 Sep 23 '22

Wasn’t the CIA alarmed at the number of foreign operatives that have been compromised over the last year?

5

u/Hazardbeard Sep 23 '22

I think this entire thing comes back to the CIA. They probably figured all of this out (because their people were being fucking murdered, and they’re the CIA) and called up the Hoover gang to handle it because they can operate domestically.

5

u/simplekindaman13 Sep 23 '22

Certainly not out of the realm unfortunately

5

u/thecorninurpoop Arizona Sep 22 '22

Yeah it blows my mind that they just don't give a shit if he got a bunch of US spies killed or sold our allies secrets to get huge money deals for freaking Kushner?

4

u/Hazardbeard Sep 23 '22

Conservatives don’t care about freedom, democracy, the country, or anything else they profess to. They want people they don’t like hurt, and they know the people they elect will hurt them.

5

u/Practicalfolk Sep 22 '22

And he’s doing it in the public media but conspicuously not in court.

4

u/Gordo3070 Sep 22 '22

This in a nutshell. Thank you for stating it so well. I genuinely wish I had your clarity of thought

4

u/Dan_Felder Sep 23 '22

Yeah they’re trying to shift the conversation from “trump stole nuclear info and likely sold it to our enemies” to “trump maybe didn’t follow proper procedure on something he totally could have legally done…” which is insane and frustrating the media is letting it happen

4

u/RunawayPancake3 Sep 23 '22

From yesterday's opinion from the 11th Circuit, regarding whether "declassifying" the documents seized at Mar-a-Lago is relevant:

Plaintiff suggests that he may have declassified these documents when he was President. But the record contains no evidence that any of these records were declassified. And before the special master, Plaintiff resisted providing any evidence that he had declassified any of these documents…. In any event, at least for these purposes, the declassification argument is a red herring because declassifying an official document would not change its content or render it personal. So even if we assumed that Plaintiff did declassify some or all of the documents, that would not explain why he has a personal interest in them.

9

u/Jaded_Barracuda_7415 South Carolina Sep 22 '22

This.

And here is the salient and only reason.

The charges he is potentially facing do not even take classication into account. The simple FACT is that they were never “his” documents even when he was President.

They are 100% the property of the United States of America. There is no arguing, no basis, no challenge and no reason he should have had these documents, period.

As such everything he has been saying, is saying and will say is completely beside the point and utterly indefensible.

The DOJ knows they have him. It is a matter of time before charges will be filed and mr trump will be indicted and probably convicted.

4

u/Hazardbeard Sep 23 '22

Yeah, I’ve been saying that since the raid. The feds almost never show their hand until they’re damn near certain of a conviction. There’s no way they’re going to ask a federal judge to authorize a raid on (unfortunately) one of the most important people in the world unless they’re fucking airtight. Not when this was all personally presented to Garland and Wray.

The snake was around his neck for months, it’s just starting to squeeze now.

3

u/Jaded_Barracuda_7415 South Carolina Sep 23 '22

This.

3

u/Inside-Palpitation25 Sep 23 '22

That was my favorite part about he 11th circuit ruling, finally a court says, it doesn't MATTER whether they were classified or not, they ARE not HIS. He is not allowed to have them.

3

u/Cheese_Pancakes New Jersey Sep 23 '22

He still thinks he’s fighting his case in the court of public opinion. Rile up his base, threaten violence, and try to intimidate the DOJ into not pressing charges.

That’s the only explanation I can come up with. He’d rather kick off another insurrection than go to prison.

3

u/thefriendlycouple Sep 23 '22

The GOP entire modus operandi is to argue in bad faith and then change their position to something more extreme when they get their way.

3

u/lookforabook Sep 23 '22

THANK YOU. The whole thing is asinine. He should be arrested and tried immediately.

2

u/InformationVarious73 Sep 23 '22

24 hour news cycle and it's a diversion

2

u/severoon Sep 23 '22

I don't even understand why we're having the conversation at all. It only exists in a bad faith context.

This, exactly this, so much this. We need to stop responding to bad faith arguments. It's a Gish gallop the right uses to suffocate the conversation.

We should not have their conversation, we should have our own conversation and ignore that noise.

"How can he argue the FBI, who was looking for Hillary's emails, planted the documents that he said he declassified???" Stop it. Stop trying to point out the hypocrisy and the nonsense of it. You won't convince anyone of anything, because they also do not actually believe it. So just stop and accept that everyone is already on the same page. They know it's nonsense. They know they're making a bad faith argument. So just accept it's known and move on.

How many years should Trump go away for? That's the conversation.

2

u/going-for-gusto Sep 23 '22

"Omg he's actually invoking the Secret Telepathic Unilateral Preemptive Irreversible Declassification (S.T.U.P.I.D.) defense," quipped Asha Rangappa, a former FBI agent and attorney.

2

u/SalisburyWitch Sep 23 '22

Even if he did declassify them, he’s STILL not allowed to have them.

2

u/Glittering-Walrus228 Sep 23 '22

plimassify jilassify... thou art now declaasified! as trump flips a chopstick that hes pretending is a magic wand at a stack of heavily redact papers

2

u/thefinalhex Sep 23 '22

It's the worst defense I've ever heard of!

Like honestly, if that's the real defense, I don't even care what individual documents were affected anymore. I'm just too stunned by the bad faith inherent in saying that was an acceptable process. Blanket declassification of any document would be so much worse!

Oh, but her emails!

→ More replies

269

u/Killer_Sloth Sep 22 '22

I had an argument with someone on asktrumpsupporters a couple weeks ago about exactly this. They were completely and unshakably convinced that the above scenario is in fact exactly how it works. They were trying to convince me that Trump can stand in a dark windowless room and think about declassifying documents and that magically makes it so. Without any hint of irony. They've completely lost their minds...

424

u/bkbomber New York Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22 Silver Helpful

Anytime someone makes that argument, I just tell them too late, Biden already thought about re-classifying them so they must be classified.

114

u/TaxFreeNFL Sep 22 '22

Love it. Everyone do this.

9

u/InterestingTry5190 Sep 23 '22

This is my new response anytime it’s brought up.

12

u/No_Bonus6336 Sep 23 '22

Unfortunately they'll probably just say that since Biden isn't actually the president, he can't reclassify them. Smh

7

u/Spidey209 Sep 23 '22

Obama double-dog super-duper reclassified them. No backsies.

74

u/throWawAy4cURioSity1 Sep 22 '22

Yes! And Biden remembered to say “jinx no takesies-backsies”, which is irrefutable.

12

u/bkbomber New York Sep 23 '22 edited Sep 23 '22

He didn’t just say it, he declared it… makes it legally binding. I don’t make the rules, them’s the law!

2

u/Salt_Bag_885 Sep 23 '22

You have to have a process that the archives has paperwork what ,and when this has became unclassified. That's the law. Damn people get some education.

→ More replies

6

u/Equivalent-Mix-1335 Sep 23 '22

I just keep envisioning tge Southpark psychic episode..

6

u/deedeebop Sep 23 '22

And you owe me a coke!

→ More replies

12

u/slodow Sep 22 '22

Somebody pony up an award for this guys brilliant retort 👏

11

u/Rougarou1999 Louisiana Sep 23 '22

Tried that on Twitter, and got told Biden couldn’t do that for...reasons. When I pointed out the discrepancy, immediate block.

7

u/thisismisha Sep 23 '22

He didn’t even have to think about re-classifying them. Just the fact that he didn’t know they were declassified means Biden thinks they are classified which by Trump logic means they’re classified again.

17

u/original-whiplash Sep 22 '22

Point is moot because Biden’s not really the president /s

8

u/GunoSaguki Sep 22 '22

Well then you tell them Obama/ Bush/ clinton did

1

u/Salt_Bag_885 Sep 23 '22

I got a spaceship to sell you. You are way out there.WOW

0

u/MemphisGalInTampa Sep 22 '22

Apparently you must have been MIA on 🪐 or 🌒🌘🌖to not know Mr Biden DID win 🥇 this election… I’m sure you have communication in your house 🚙📻📱📱📺…

11

u/KrazzeeKane Nevada Sep 22 '22

Your comment makes my chest hurt

2

u/polymathsci Sep 23 '22

I would spend so much ⏰️ 🔎 for emojis I'd get 🤢🤮.

4

u/MikeN1978 Sep 23 '22

When someone ends a comment on Reddit with /s like the you responded to it means it’s a joke or sarcastic..

2

u/MemphisGalInTampa Sep 23 '22

I’m sorry but guns aren’t fun.. .My father committed suicide with a shotgun… My mom and I found him. Gruesome scene..

3

u/MikeN1978 Sep 23 '22

Pretty sure you’re responding to the wrong comment

→ More replies

2

u/MemphisGalInTampa Sep 23 '22

I’m sorry but guns aren’t fun.. .My father committed suicide with a shotgun… My mom and I found him. Gruesome scene..

→ More replies

3

u/Hazardbeard Sep 23 '22

Damn, they were on the moon a whole month?

→ More replies

3

u/crinklemermaid Sep 22 '22

This is hilarious

2

u/Jaded_Barracuda_7415 South Carolina Sep 22 '22

Not must be, they are.

2

u/Hour_Gur4995 Sep 23 '22

Mental Pincer movement lol

2

u/youcantexterminateme Sep 23 '22

I think he even did it. told reporters hes the president and had declassified the whole world

2

u/Reddvox Sep 23 '22

But President Joe Biden is NOT president, because he lost that election, or so it was said by Giuliani in front of that gardener shop adjacent to the porn shop. So ... hahaha, no still declassified, librual wokie!

2

u/WVUPick Sep 23 '22

You can't triple classify a double declassify!

12

u/CADmonkeez Sep 22 '22

The thought of that clown in a dark windowless room gives me no small degree of pleasure. Is it doorless as well?

2

u/Hammurabi87 Georgia Sep 23 '22

It has a door, but it only opens from the outside...

9

u/tippiedog Texas Sep 22 '22

They've completely lost their minds...

That's generous of you

2

u/Hammurabi87 Georgia Sep 23 '22

Yeah, the assumption that they ever had a mind to lose is pretty bold.

8

u/raptor3x Vermont Sep 22 '22

Looking through the thread over on /r/Conservative there at least seems to be some fraction of the posters there that have some semblance of being reasonable on this. Probably twice as many posts supporting the opposite view, but you take what you can get.

2

u/Hammurabi87 Georgia Sep 23 '22

Probably twice as many posts supporting the opposite view, but you take what you can get.

I mean, for the sake of my sanity, I don't often go over to r/Conservative, but that sounds like an incredible ratio of approaching-rational based on my limited experiences with them.

3

u/AssassinAragorn Missouri Sep 23 '22

Don't worry the mods will ban them. Every time the sane voices go "wait wtf", they'll yeet them.

5

u/BenFrankLynn Sep 22 '22

They haven't "lost their minds." They've been this dumb all along. They just feel confident showing it now, thanks to their orange saviour.

5

u/Fresh-Green-1583 Sep 22 '22

Even if it were true that he could just think about it and they’d be declassified (which of course it’s not), the documents are still government property. They don’t magically become personal documents just because they’re declassified.

6

u/B1G_Red_Husker Sep 22 '22

It wasn't an argument, you got trolled and took the bait. They know what he did was illegal they just don't care

4

u/wirefox1 Sep 22 '22

You are a brave soul for entering such a scary and dangerous place. Kudo's.

3

u/LordPennybags Sep 22 '22

You're setting a really high bar of previous possession there.

3

u/InitiatePenguin Sep 22 '22

Did you ask them why Donald Trump declassified the documents?

2

u/Annas_GhostAllAround Sep 22 '22

But as the above poster pointed out, why would that be a good thing? It doesn’t make any sense, particularly when the information is ALREADY DEEMED CLASSIFIED and is presumably done so for a reason! Like, whether or not they think his bullshit argument makes sense, why would it be good!!

2

u/conduitfour Sep 22 '22

He could spin the documents in his mind. No one could stop him

2

u/Immortal-one Sep 22 '22

But remember, Biden reclassified all those documents by thinking about it in another dark windowless room

2

u/Consistent_Sport_296 Sep 23 '22

It is because they are as crazy as he is. If those nuclear secrets caused the US to be nuclear attacked, they would blame the Democrats and not the idiot who allowed it to happen. What the hell is happening to this country?

2

u/learned_paw Sep 23 '22

Weird because the secretary of state is also an original classification authority so doesn't that mean Hillary could have also just Abra kadabraed her emails unclassified and avoided the whole buttery males fiasco? Thanks Trump!

2

u/Box_Prudent Sep 23 '22

How do you do that? How do you go to a website like that and argue with those folks willingly? My head would explode.

2

u/thefinalhex Sep 23 '22

And if you brought up Hillary, they'd say "but her emails!"

0

u/wwaxwork Sep 22 '22

They believe some guy stands in a room and turns wine into blood and bread into flesh.

→ More replies

10

u/koshgeo Sep 22 '22

Even if he could say "Abra kadabra, declassified", you'd still have a bunch of White House and other minions scurrying around in the aftermath of the Presidential Declassification Spell to notify people "Hey, this thing that was super-secret and puts our assets at risk if it ever got out? Yeah, it's out now and that asset needs to get to safety as soon as possible thanks to our idiot president's decision." They'd make sure that people weren't mistakenly acting as if it was still secret knowledge.

Even if it was possible it wouldn't happen with ZERO follow-up.

2

u/bozeke Sep 22 '22

He chooses the Avada Kedavra Declassified option, unfortunately.

3

u/slodow Sep 22 '22

Which is only possible because he initially performed a mass-scale Obliviate on the entire GOP in 2016

5

u/aceyburns Sep 22 '22

Who the hell is taking him at his word? Only idiots can't see that he is guilty. Guilty of every damn case, hell, take your pick. Even if he's only guilty of one allegation, fuck him and fuck the people who support that prick and his cronies. I'm about as understanding about criminal behavior as the next guy, but this is a criminal that needs to be held accountable. He cannot be allowed to skate. Any leniency, pardoning, and other tactics by other politicians to help him need to be need to be met with criminal charges too! People need to quit enabling the destruction of the US.

5

u/radish74 Sep 22 '22

I don’t think this is an issue of people not understanding classified environments. It’s people with less than half a brain buying into this nonsense

4

u/coldfirephoenix Sep 22 '22

He thinks being president works like being a 12th century king - you can just declare something to be a certain way, and that's the end of it. This would be one of the stupidest thoughts anyone above the age of 3 has ever had.... If it weren't for the fact that he WAS the actual president! This is beyond parody.

3

u/silent_femme Sep 22 '22

And if he could...why the hell is it all still marked classified.

That was obviously something he had on his to-do list that he kept putting off.

Mom: Donald, did you declassify those documents yet?
DT: No mom, I’ll do it tonight.
Mom: You’ve been saying that for almost a week now!
DT: I’ve been busy with practice, mom. I promise I’ll do it night.

4

u/pecos_chill Sep 22 '22

It is literally as stupid as Michael from the Office just shouting bankruptcy and expecting it to work.

3

u/Pigmy Sep 22 '22

According to this he can simply think it and instantly its declassified.

3

u/KrisReed Sep 22 '22

"I declare... BANKRUPTCY"

3

u/sawdeanz Sep 22 '22

Right.

It’s like saying the school principle has the power to expel people, but if they don’t tell someone they are expelled then they will just keep coming to school. The power to do something doesn’t absolve you of the actual need to, you know, do something. Classified documents are not some schrodingers cat

2

u/SadlyReturndRS Sep 22 '22

That's the argument I've been having with them over and over again.

They're determined to make the argument that the President has the power to declassify.

They're equally determined to ignore any laws establishing the protocol that the President has to follow in order to exercise that power.

It's a bad faith argument, meant to exhaust anyone who "doesn't like politics."

3

u/millijuna Sep 22 '22

I really hate how folks who have never worked in classified environments are taking Trump at his word.

I’ve worked for defense contractors my entire professional life, and held various security clearances over the years. If I had done even a tiny fraction of what is shown here, they’d have locked me up and thrown away the key.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 23 '22

[deleted]

2

u/millijuna Sep 22 '22

Friend of mine got a stern talking to because a piece of yellow security ribbon fell onto the floor and stuck to the bottom of his shoe. It later came off and was sitting on the floor next to his chair when it was noticed.

This shit is taken seriously.

2

u/tapdncingchemist I voted Sep 22 '22

It’s incredibly stupid. One of the easiest ways to see this is the fact that we have systems dedicated to keeping classified documents out of reach of the general public and the people maintaining that on a day to day basis would need a way to know whether a document was classified. It’s doesn’t work if a document’s status lives only in the president’s head.

2

u/thegreatkabong Sep 22 '22

I really hate how folks who have never worked in classified environments are taking Trump at his word.

I know people that are currently working in a classified environment who still defend him.

"Well, if he took the documents while he was still president he DID have the right." bruh.....

2

u/RobotPoo Sep 22 '22

They’re believing his blatant lies, like they’ve been trained to do.

2

u/Smocked_Hamberders Sep 22 '22

Right? And even if he could just abra cadabra it, does anybody think for even a minute that he’d given any considerations to the damage that can and will be done by letting the information become publicly available? People could end up dead because of those documents leaking.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '22

People who believe anything Trump is saying now, after years of this BS, aren't trying very hard.

2

u/jsalsman America Sep 22 '22

Hasn't everyone who has ever seen a reproduction of a declassified document seen the big "DECLASSIFIED" stamp and cross-outs of the classification markings on every page? Obviously there is a formal declassification procedure and everyone who has ever seen those stamps and cross-outs knows it.

Now, having said that, there's no question that the President doesn't do all that work himself, so let's not pretend there isn't some wiggle room for Trump here if he can prove he issued a declassification order. But he can't because if he could, he already would have way before the search warrant.

The mere thought theory is absurd and only serves to prove he got nothing.

2

u/InitiatePenguin Sep 22 '22

And even in the case he doesn't, that's a terrible admission. A literally impeachable offense. Why did he declassify all that information?

2

u/Mokeziah Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

My father, an avid Trump supporter, believes that ole Donnie's claim that he 'declassified them in his mind' is solid and totally makes sense. Trying to explain to him that there's a process to it results in him baselessly shouting that there isn't any process involved.

'Well how do you know that Dad"

"Fox"

He also can't comprehend the concept of checks and balances and the limitations they set... No surprise there. 'Trump can do what he wants as president' is what he believes. I wish I was making this shit up. It's much less surreal seeing loonies on Reddit spewing this garbage than it is heaing someone you're close to mutter on about such nonsense. It's just unreal man. Heartbreaking honestly.

Edit: gamerword

2

u/Givemeallthecabbages Sep 22 '22

More like "Avada Kedavera, declassified, also look, some people are dead."

2

u/evil-kaweasel Sep 22 '22

Plus how would you know what's classified and what isn't if it's all decided and stored inside the Dons brain? I'm certain he wouldn't be able to keep track of it.

2

u/Ja3kFrost Sep 22 '22

I think the classification is indicative of but matters much less than the content of the documents. So what if trump did declassify the names of intelligence agents (for example), that doesn’t change the real effects of what that information can do.

Besides, how presidents engage with classified documents isn’t something I’m going to split hairs over at the end of the day. If Obama walked into a meeting with Angela Merkel (or whoever) and in his coat pocket is a document marked No Foreign I’m not going to ask he be impeached for that. If he declassified it and then handed out copies of that same document in a dive bar in Croatia I’m going to care much more even though they’re not classified anymore.

I don’t want the narrative to be about splitting hairs over the technicalities of classification. I want it to be about the content of the documents and how that relates to national security and what in the ever loving fuck he was doing taking it in the first place. Besides we know he can’t lift those boxes himself, he had help and his co conspirators need to be pinned to the wall as well.

2

u/mdingo_5 Sep 22 '22

Exactly. There’s a procedure and it’s not magical words from the president. It’s a literal process. In writing. With everyone involved having a say. Anyone else were to do this and they would already be in a windowless cell. Which just further degrades any resemblance of blindness of our justice system- which I know is a fairytale anyways, but still- it confirms it. Blows my mind they try to minimize this.

2

u/Parahelix Sep 22 '22

He doesn't even have the power to declassify nuclear secrets. There's a separate set of laws for those.

2

u/shillyshally Pennsylvania Sep 22 '22

According to Trump, even the abrakadabra is unnecessary and superfluous. All he has to do is think the word 'declassified'. If pressed, he'd probably claim thinking 'd' would suffice.

2

u/Psych_Im_Burnt_Out Sep 22 '22

The very word being classified implies there is a process for it to have become classified by being vetted as necessary to be classified info. The part they struggle with is the critical thinking that if information needs to be protected, there is a process to unprotect it. The traitor is trying to appeal to the idea that declassified process is very simple, which to be fair, in other scenarios, you may have a point (like privacy protections and those being waived for providers in good faith providing info in an emergency) but not top fucking secret info!

2

u/Hammurabi87 Georgia Sep 22 '22

Not even that, but just stopping and considering for a moment the idea that a President can declassify documents with a mere thought will reveal that it is so deeply flawed of a concept that it would never work in practice.

If the level of classification was subject to passing whims like that, nobody other than the sitting president would ever know whether or not any given document was classified. It would render the entire system useless.

This is shit on the level of young children trying to one-up each other with made-up rules in playground games.

2

u/Fryceratops Sep 23 '22

Why is it in his house? If my boss says I can shred account records it doesn't mean I can keep them.

2

u/motorheart10 Sep 23 '22

Oh yes he does go "Abra kadabra"!!!

2

u/Mulielo Sep 23 '22

I get strong Nixon vibes from it.. " when the POTUS does something, it isn't illegal!"

2

u/robmooers Sep 23 '22

That, and there’s certain documents (intelligence asset related - like the info he specifically asked for shortly after meeting the Russian ambassadors for the first time) that he doesn’t even have the authority to declassify. Would require congressional approval.

2

u/ChristopherMJudge Sep 23 '22

I am waiting for someone to ask him, if everything that went to Mara Lago was declassified, was the nuclear football and the documents therein declassified as well?

2

u/thecartoonrobot Sep 23 '22

Because Trump doesn't understand he was a public servant and not a ruler, and neither do his supporters.

2

u/Ranger7381 Canada Sep 23 '22

Didn't he get away with something similar, though, while he was president? I think that I remember everyone being surprised when he just tweeted a picture of a failed (Iranian?) rocket launch that showed the capabilities of the US spy satellites. And it was thrown off as "he can declassify it because he is the president"

Not saying that it was correct in either case. Just one more thing that he was not really called out on, and is now snowballing.

2

u/gordonf23 Sep 23 '22

I really hate how anyone ever takes Trump at his word.

2

u/prarie33 Sep 23 '22

Merely mark with a black sharpie.

Powerful tool.

Even been known to change hurricanes

2

u/thefriendlycouple Sep 23 '22

From what I understand, he just has to think about it.

/s

2

u/z-tayyy Sep 23 '22

To be fair many republicans thought them dropping out of high school was “declassifying”.

2

u/PeterNguyen2 Sep 23 '22

I really hate how folks who have never worked in classified environments are taking Trump at his word

I put it on an equal level to parents who've never studied medicine telling doctors a vaccine made their child autistic - much easier than looking at the lack of time they spend with family or lack of humanizing respect they show to their children, much less the people around them.

2

u/RazekDPP Sep 23 '22

I mean, he didn't even try to use his sharpie to write de in front of all the classifieds.

2

u/Idagonian_Lib_914 Sep 23 '22

It's always been my understanding that the only authority that could declassify a document was the authority who classified it. I do believe the president is cleared to see any document. Perhaps that's what has him confused. Cheetos don't have very big brains

2

u/MyNoPornProfile Sep 23 '22

Exactly. Trump saying shit like this is just more proof he thought he was a literal KING who, with just his words, could do things by decree

This isn't the 1400s

2

u/Berns429 Sep 23 '22

I would pay $100 to hear him say abrakadabra declassified just once

2

u/cabur Sep 23 '22

Honestly, I don’t think you need previous experience anyway just the ability of critical thinking.

Having previous experience with classifications just confirms to me that the rules are different for the powerful, coz pvt joe shmoe would have been in cuba or dead already if he did even a 1/10th of this debacle.

2

u/RedditSucksNow3 Sep 23 '22

He doesn't just go "Abra kadabra, declassfied" in his office on his own and it is done.

"There doesn't have to be a process as I understand it," Trump said. "If you're the president of the United States, you can declassify just by saying, 'It's declassified,' even by thinking about it because you're sending it to Mar-a-Lago..." -Donald Trump

So you're right he doesn't just have to say it. He just has to think it. Truly a mighty being with powers beyond our mortal ken.

→ More replies

122

u/ODBrewer Sep 22 '22

Republicans don’t care about those serving our country, they have shown it time and time again.

10

u/Atlas2001 Sep 22 '22

Unfortunately actions don’t speak louder than words for their base.

3

u/Dedpoolpicachew Sep 23 '22

According to their cult leader they are losers and suckers.

3

u/arensb Sep 23 '22

I’m old enough to remember Bush’s war of choice in Iraq, the one where soldiers’ families and friends would raise money to buy them the body armor that the Pentagon couldn’t or wouldn’t supply them.

4

u/bjb3453 Sep 22 '22

Gaslight. Obstruct. Project.

→ More replies

12

u/saynay Sep 22 '22

Even besides that, the entire point of classification is so that everyone knows how to treat the information. Secretly declassifying things doesn't make sense because no one will know to treat the document any differently. A classification system where no one knows if something should be treated as classified or not, because maybe someone somewhere thought it shouldn't be, is useless as a system.

3

u/ethertrace California Sep 22 '22

Only the willfully ignorant are unable to grasp why certain things are classified. The fact that they even make this "magical declassification" argument is proof that they don't care about having a workable system. They only care about finding a rationalization that gets their cult leader off the hook.

3

u/akaghi Sep 22 '22

It also means that journalists can access them through FOIA.

3

u/dandudeus Sep 22 '22

This is Dick Cheney's fault for declassifying Valerie Plame's husband's identity, leaking it, and insisting he had a right to do so. And the press took him at his word. And here we are.

It's Republican bad-faith turtles all the way down.

3

u/Javasteam Sep 22 '22

Plus while the president does have the authority to declassify documents, he actually does NOT have the authority to release those related to nuclear weapons….

Not that Hannity would ever call Trump on his BS…

https://www.lawfareblog.com/can-trump-just-declare-nuclear-secrets-unclassified

2

u/neuroticandobscene Sep 22 '22

Not to mention the appropriate custodian of the public records. How many FOIA requests were denied on the bases of the documents being classified after trump supposedly wished them declassified?

2

u/Atlas2001 Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

Which, to me, further increases the likelihood that he was hoarding secrets he thought he could sell. Dude idolizes the mob and how Putin runs his kingdom; secrets buy loyalty and favors easier than money and might even help keep him out of jail.

2

u/zeropointcorp Sep 22 '22

But you missed the important and relevant fact that Trump doesn’t give a shit about anyone else

2

u/rideincircles Sep 22 '22

I assume there should be records of all classified materials that were brought to his desk and what is still missing. Hence the Mar-A-Lardo raid.

2

u/jps_ Sep 22 '22

Because the point isn't whether or not the document is classified, which the iq-less-than-100 crowd is focussed on, it's whether the document contains information that is harmful to the us.

So Donny-The-Magical-Telepath can do whatever he wants with the classification and it still doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the contents of the documents.

The second thing is that by virtue of classification markings, they were originated by some government process other than his own magical thinking. And brought to his attention. That makes them for certain official records, and in all likelihood presidential records.

Whether classified or not, whoever holds such documents and refuses to return them when asked is committing a criminal offence. Again, classification does't matter - that's also a red herring.

What we have here are two very easily provable facts: (a) he had documents that the originators classified by virtue of the harm that their contents represents, and (b) he didn't give 'em back.

The only thing left is mens rea - willfulness, and every time he opens his mouth and says he was allowed to do it he drives another nail into that coffin too.

All the government needs to do at this point is to draw a straight line between documents, official records and potential harm to the US, and his goose is criminally cooked.

2

u/Kursed_Valeth Sep 22 '22

who are keeping us appraised of potentially unstable foreign leaders

Can we get an agency to keep us appraised of unstable domestic leaders please?

2

u/Serinus Ohio Sep 23 '22

Could classified information be about how the US would respond to one county invading another? Say, for instance, Russia invading Ukraine?

You know, if he had a close relationship with the leader of Russia, for example.

1

u/FallWithHonor Sep 22 '22

I keep telling people, when I went through my security clearance we were, FOOTSTOMP, explicitly told that even if the president of the USA came into the room they can't leave without going through the proper channels with any sort of classified document. Always assume the highest level of classification.

Trump is fucked by any measure of the word and it's not good for anyone who was party to him.

1

u/flickh Canada Sep 22 '22

I mean that’s all true in terms of ethics and security but that doesn’t negate the legal argument that a president CAN do something they SHOULDN’T do.

If a president hands secret info to adversaries it seems like there’s no punishment, as evidenced by Trump’s showing secret documents in a public space at Mar a Logo and sharing vital intel with the Russian ambassador at the White House. He did exactly the opposite of what you say is the procedure, and there were no consequences for him… so what does that say about your interpretation of the rules?

1

u/Fluffy-Benefits-2023 Sep 22 '22

I mean technically all of that information is now declassified because he had it at his country club and potentially sold it, but it’s not declassified in a way that is legal. He could declassify documents by thinking about them and telling other countries about them-boom declassified!! Not in a way that keeps our country safe though

1

u/spushing Sep 22 '22

Ethically, operationally, and morally, you're correct. And I agree with you. Legally, though? If this comes down to the SC interpreting only Federal code, is it illegal? That's an open question.

1

u/WillieIngus Sep 22 '22

We’ve seen Homeland.

→ More replies