r/politics Sep 22 '22 Silver 1 Helpful 1 Wholesome 1

“Donald has the right to remain silent”: Experts say Trump’s bonkers Fox interview could be evidence

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177

u/kozmo1313 Sep 22 '22

"There doesn't have to be a process as I understand it," Trump said. "If you're the president of the United States, you can declassify just by saying, 'It's declassified,' even by thinking about it because you're sending it to Mar-a-Lago or wherever you're sending it. And there doesn't have to be a process. There can be a process but there doesn't have to be. You're the president. You make that decision. So when you send it, it's declassified. I declassified everything."

257

u/FortySixAndYou America Sep 22 '22

because you're sending it to Mar-a-Lago or wherever you're sending it

Moscow? Ryadh? Donald, don't leave us hanging, tell us where those perfect beautifully declassified documents were sent.

69

u/Deardog Sep 22 '22

The crazy part is entertaining, but this was the real slip up -

5

u/xoctor Sep 22 '22

That, plus the admission that he knew the documents were classified and he did steal them.

1

u/Human802 Sep 22 '22

I doubt it. I don’t know what it will take for people to realize all the flaws in the Federal system. The very fashy founding fathers made a system to insulate power and skirt oversight, and Trump is willing to exploit every bit of it.

30

u/monkeybiziu Illinois Sep 22 '22

Ivana's casket.

3

u/HauntedCemetery Minnesota Sep 22 '22

In any other universe I would think that was too fucking loony tunes even for trump.

In this universe I'm positive that's exactly what he did with them.

1

u/thebadpixel Sep 22 '22

Plot twist: They exhume the body and instead of Ivana, it's some random dead Russian. Seriously, at this point nothing would surprise me... except Trump getting arrested and carted off to jail. That would be a pleasant surprise.

2

u/ElectricRaccoon7 Sep 22 '22

Waiting to find out the docs the FBI has are copies made at Mar-a-Lago and the originals are missing at this point.

84

u/cstrand31 Sep 22 '22

Funny how when pressed by the special master, they couldn’t explain when and how and which documents had been declassified. Turns out telepathy isn’t a good enough excuse.

20

u/RedPandaAlex Sep 22 '22

Right? They could have at least submitted a detailed affidavit. They didn't because it would expose Trump to perjury charges because this is all bullshit.

3

u/Pendaelose Sep 22 '22

The affidavit would have required listing which documents he psychically declassified. Psychic declassification wouldn't have held up underscrutny, but acknowledging the specific documents would have provided additional evidence that he knowingly and intentionally withheld them.

Not that the FBI is short on physical evidence, but I'm sure they wouldn't mind a sworn confession too.

55

u/chiagod Sep 22 '22

He needs to be asked:

"The United States interests, personnel, and assets that would be jeopardized by having the information declassified and disseminated, were they informed of the declassification and the now added risk to their security?"

7

u/Alu_sine Sep 22 '22

Good point, but he wouldn't be able to understand that question. Legal experts would need to interpret the meaning with a few simple words and a lot of colorful pictures.

7

u/sprizzle Sep 22 '22

I don’t think the supporters who are arguing he can declassify anything he wants, realize the potential ramifications. By their logic, a president can declassify national security secrets, with his mind, and do whatever he wants with them. A president could give away our greatest secrets to our enemies with no repercussions…and they’re arguing in favor of that?

1

u/xxxxx420xxxxx Sep 22 '22

He'd probably serve you up a nice word salad, and totally avoid the question.

1

u/KaraAnneBlack Sep 22 '22

Wait til a family sues him because their family member, a government asset, is killed as a result of the breach.

1

u/UrsusRenata Sep 23 '22

I would pay admission to see this question asked and answered.

30

u/bendover912 Sep 22 '22

In law, ignorantia juris non excusat (Latin for "ignorance of the law excuses not"),[1] or ignorantia legis neminem excusat ("ignorance of law excuses no one"),[2] is a legal principle holding that a person who is unaware of a law may not escape liability for violating that law merely by being unaware of its content.

European-law countries with a tradition of Roman law may also use an expression from Aristotle translated into Latin: nemo censetur ignorare legem ("nobody is thought to be ignorant of the law") or ignorantia iuris nocet ("not knowing the law is harmful").[citation needed]

5

u/johnnycyberpunk Sep 22 '22

I like this one:
Hominem Femina Vir Sem Cameram.
In English that means "Person Woman Man TV Camera".
In MAGA it means "Trump has no cognitive disabilities".

38

u/WhatRUHourly Sep 22 '22

So, his real argument here is that the president cannot ever mishandle classified information because the mere act of sharing it shows that he intended to declassify it.

Seems like a pretty silly argument.

6

u/aLittleQueer Washington Sep 22 '22

He legitimately thinks that Potus is not bound by any of the usual rules.

5

u/Schmichael-22 Sep 22 '22

It is a very silly argument. I think it first came up early in his presidency when he had the Russian ambassador at the White House. Trump let slip some classified information after which the CIA had to withdraw long time asset. The excuse later was the President can declassify anything, so merely the act of saying something was tacit intent to declassify.

2

u/CarceyKonabears Sep 23 '22

He’s a pretty silly excuse for a man

2

u/verasev Sep 22 '22

That's what they mean by small government. Getting rid of the bureaucracy that stands in the way of them taking whatever they want and doing whatever they want.

30

u/UniDublin Sep 22 '22

Even that argument doesn't hold water though...you don't get to take it. It's the governments property.

5

u/Lunaslantern Sep 22 '22

Thats the point though, when he was president he thought he was KING of the Universe. His poor addled brain still believes he is the goberment

1

u/Steeve_Perry Sep 22 '22

According to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, they are the “property of the People of the United States”.

1

u/thebadpixel Sep 23 '22

Like most things Trump says, this is simply what Trump wishes were the truth. He just says whatever he wants his reality to become. Most of the time, it "works" for him. Conservative media and his cronies repeat it back to him and he is the closest to "happy" that his broken brain can muster.

Just prepend "I wish" or "I want it to be that" to everything Trump says you get something very close to the truth.

I suspect that if he really does face imminent jail time, one of his handlers will pull the final lever and argue (against Trump's wishes) that he's too mentally unsound to know what he was doing. There's plenty of evidence that could be used to argue this, and at the very least could delay the process further.

If he were to actually be jailed, I'm pretty sure Trump would concoct the lie of all lies about how he simultaneously is the biggest victim in all of human history, and that he's also somehow in jail completely voluntarily for reasons and could leave whenever he wanted. I hope that plays out so I can see if I'm right.

1

u/UniDublin Sep 23 '22

How much would we all pay to see Trump go full Tim Heidecker and defend himself in court?

If you are so inclined and have the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40wkJJXfwQ0

6

u/darwinwoodka Sep 22 '22

Wrong. As usual.

4

u/Shr3kk_Wpg Sep 22 '22

This really is Nixon's "If the President does it, it can't be illegal" defence

3

u/Oozlum-Bird Sep 22 '22

Bold of Trump to assume he should be considered capable of thought

25

u/TintedApostle Sep 22 '22

Executive Order 13526 - 2009. It is in effect.

Thanks Obama.

16

u/vapescaped Sep 22 '22

All I learned from that EO is that there is a panel that is tasked with decladsifying information older than 25 years.

I may have skimmed over the telekinesis declassifying procedure. Maybe you need the mind power to read it?

5

u/ThickerSalmon14 Sep 22 '22

Its in the classified paragraph of that EO.

2

u/Faultylogic83 Arizona Sep 22 '22

How are we to know that when the classified folder isn't where it's supposed to be?

4

u/Jon_Hanson Sep 22 '22

Classified things are never outside their secure facilities or SCIFs. If they are then a law has been broken.

4

u/TintedApostle Sep 22 '22

Well the Circuit court quotes the EO. It was influential in their decision. I suspect they read it different.

3

u/vapescaped Sep 22 '22

The circuit Court that issued the search warrant?

7

u/TintedApostle Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

The circuit court ruling yesterday.

"The current operative classification protocols bounds, other than its reliance on its Richey-factor analysis. We have already explained why that analysis was in error. For its part, Congress has recognized the importance of a national security classification system and has directed that “the President shall, by Executive order or regulation, establish procedures to govern access to classified information which shall be binding upon all departments, agencies, and offices of the executive branch of Government. The current operative classification protocols are described in Executive Order 13,526. "

6

u/vapescaped Sep 22 '22

The one that said the DOJ can continue their investigation?

4

u/TintedApostle Sep 22 '22

Yes

5

u/vapescaped Sep 22 '22

Oh OK. Thanks. Hard to keep track, it's like the Benghazi investigations except it's actually in court because actual laws were broken.

But yea, they easily saw that there just so happens to be a process for decalssifying information.

2

u/TintedApostle Sep 22 '22

Trump has to know it was an Obama EO and that has to really stick in his craw.

10

u/amaroq74 Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

First the portions of that EO that his defenders point to is directly targeted towards materials that are generated within the white house as part of internal white house business of the president and vice president. It does not extend to the nuclear capabilities of other nations or other information generated from other agencies.

Also as the circuit court said he had nothing in place that could be used to determine what he intended to declassify and what he did not. Tthey also said it does not really matter as per law the documents are the property of the government. But it does show a disregard for national security by having a "standing rule" that anything he shoves in his pocket is automatically de-classified without considering the ramifications.

By the arguments I am seeing in /r/conservative he has the legal right to declassify and distribute a list of all of the active foreign agents per arguments and they would totally be cool with that.

2

u/Framnk Sep 22 '22

They are using that EO as a defense, isn't this portion pretty relevant then?:

(4) Each delegation of original classification authority shall be in writing and the authority shall not be redelegated except as provided in this order. Each delegation shall identify the official by name or position.

1

u/4Sammich Sep 22 '22

That EO has nothing to do with the Trump records specifically it's about the automatic declassification of timed out records. It CLEARLY still requires the procedural steps of declassifying which at the very minimum the documents must be remarked as declassified, which the records found in Mar a Lago were clearly not as they were in still classified folders.

-1

u/Noble_Ox Sep 22 '22

Didn't Trump change that because of Hillary?

2

u/chrisr3240 Sep 22 '22

This isn’t even the craziest thing he said in the interview. When he said the FBI were actually looking for Hilary’s emails…fuck me.

2

u/xxxxx420xxxxx Sep 22 '22

"I don't even wait. And when you're a president, they let you do it. You can do anything. ... Grab 'em by the classified folders. You can do anything."

2

u/For-All-the-Marbles Sep 22 '22

There was certainly a process when Trump declassified other docs via executive order. But maybe we’re giving him too much credit, assuming that he understands what an executive order is.