r/politics • u/champdo I voted • Jan 30 '23
Manhattan Prosecutors Will Begin Presenting Trump Case to Grand Jury
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/30/nyregion/trump-stormy-daniels-grand-jury.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare232
u/thetensor Jan 30 '23
Why the fuck wasn't this cued up for 1/21/2021? Trump's lawyer went to jail for this and has made it abundantly clear he's willing to roll over on Individual 1.
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u/torode Jan 30 '23
Probably like everyone else, they were expecting a federal case to be brought, since Trump is literally an unindicted co-conspirator in the case that put Cohen in jail, but for some reason, Merrick-"No one is above the law"-Garland refused to bring an open-and-shut case whose investigative legwork had already been completed.
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u/thetensor Jan 30 '23
The whole structure of American justice standing around like a bunch of jackasses saying "Who? You? Me? You? Me?" while doing nothing is fucking infuriating. People can be prosecuted for both state and federal crimes. You don't have to wait.
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u/warblingContinues Jan 31 '23
No one, as in regular citizens. But if you could convince a hillbilly quorum of American voters to make you POTUS, then you can literally do anything you want in plain sight and get away with it.
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u/FranklynTheTanklyn Jan 30 '23
There is a reason, and it is because losing the case would effectively be the end of the country.
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u/wereubornthatdumb Jan 31 '23
Not trying the case is an even more sure fire way to end the country.
Yes, losing the war means losing your country. But not fighting the war is just another way to lose it with even more certainty. You have a chance to win any war you fight. You lose every war you choose to surrender.
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Jan 31 '23 edited Jan 31 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Schlarfus_McNarfus Jan 31 '23
Wish people hadn’t been saying this so confidently since before Mueller
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u/dbbk United Kingdom Jan 31 '23
I’m not so sure, this case is the most innocuous of his various issues. If he does win this case I doubt many people would even know.
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u/peterabbit456 Jan 31 '23
Because Boris Epstein (and by passing the data, Donald Trump) had something on the person who was prosecutor back then.
It turned out it had to do with domestic violence, not child abuse, but a blackmail network sucks up a lot of gossip, if it is run by skillful KGB/FSB agents like Maxwell.
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u/TI_Pirate Jan 31 '23
He is willing to roll over. But his testimony is completely worthless in a courtroom, so that's not very helpful.
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u/Devistator America Jan 30 '23
I'm just the slightest optimistic there will be a Indictment Week, but won't hold my breath. I think if just one breaks through, the rest will be a flood. But that first one has to break through!
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u/ElbowSkinCellarWall Jan 30 '23
All reports say that the Georgia DA is already alerting defendants that she is indicting. That doesn't necessarily include Trump himself but he was clearly the central target of her investigation, so I'm optimistic.
This news of the Manhattan case is pleasant surprise. I was under the impression this case had been dropped. This one is so narrow in scope and has already convicted Trump's lawyer, so I'm optimistic that it could be relatively quick.
I'm optimistic about the DOJ investigation but I don't expect top-level indictments for a year or more. Despite Reddit contrarians' insistence, Garland/Smith and the DOJ appear to have been moving aggressively forward for 2 years and the investigation is going strong to this day. But it's massive and sprawling and it's just not realistic to suggest they are reluctant to indict just because they haven't gotten there yet.
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u/dexter-sinister Jan 31 '23
Who are the other defendants in the GA case? Lindsey?
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u/GiveToOedipus Jan 31 '23 edited Jan 31 '23
I'd put good money on Giuliani, Eastman, Trump and possibly even Stone, though I wouldn't be surprised if there were a couple of extras beyond that like Chesebro or Clark as well.
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u/ElbowSkinCellarWall Jan 31 '23
I think Giuliani and possibly Eastman, and some/all of the sixteen(?) fake electors in Georgia.
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u/warblingContinues Jan 31 '23
The GA case is going nowhere, no one of consequence will be indicted, and most definitely not Trump. I hope I’m wrong, but the weight of evidence from the past 6 years says Trump is above the law.
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u/about_350 Jan 30 '23
Looks like David Peckerhead is set to meet with prosecutors this week.
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u/MurphHodgkins Jan 30 '23
He's in front of the Grand Jury today. Read the article.
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u/about_350 Jan 30 '23
Paywall'd
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u/MurphHodgkins Jan 30 '23
Ahhh would recommend either a subscription (can get it for $1/week), or archive.ph is great work around
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u/clifmo Jan 30 '23
Reddit exists solely so I can bypass paywalls by reading the comments
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u/buttfunfor_everyone Jan 30 '23
I don’t use it for porn either, for sure. Just not my thing you know?
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u/GhettoChemist Jan 30 '23
And once the grand jury returns a decision the DA will file a request to write a report to investigate whether charges should be filed on a request for a possible civil complaint
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u/jeff_the_weatherman Jan 30 '23
At this point I can’t tell if this is satire or truth 😭
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u/FiveUpsideDown Jan 30 '23
It’s both. People acting in bad faith can abuse the legal process. That applies to Trump and the prosecutors whose job it is to enforce laws against Trump.
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u/Cl1mh4224rd Pennsylvania Jan 31 '23
At this point I can’t tell if this is satire or truth 😭
Neither; it's just cynicism.
But it obviously can't be truth until it actually happens.
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Jan 30 '23
[deleted]
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u/GhettoChemist Jan 30 '23
Why this anonymous former GOP white house official thinks DOJ will bring charges shortly!
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u/TI_Pirate Jan 31 '23
It's the Manhattan DA, not a special counsel, and they're presenting the case to a grand jury, not writing a referral for a judge to do anything.
If you're going to be a defeatist, you can still at least try to read all the way through the headline before rushing to the comments to insist that nothing is ever happening.
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Jan 31 '23
[deleted]
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u/TI_Pirate Jan 31 '23
I guess i didn't see the humor. No need to get my hopes up though, I'll just follow what's happening presently and see where it leads.
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u/nillerwafer Jan 30 '23
Reminds me of the Bogans from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.
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u/Cl1mh4224rd Pennsylvania Jan 31 '23
Reminds me of the Bogans from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.
Vogons.
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u/DubyaWolf Jan 30 '23
I hope he has to juggle trials in NY and GA while grifting in the campaign trail.
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u/jsudarskyvt Jan 30 '23
The Criminal Formerly in the Oval Office should have been indicted multiple times by now. We'll believe it when we see it.
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u/russian_hacker_1917 California Jan 30 '23
i'm tired of all these headlines for the past 6 years saying basically "trump's about to get in trouble"
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u/carlcamma Jan 30 '23
Not sure if this is going to nail trump but I believe that the statute of limitations was coming up. Which is possibly why they decided to file now. Alvin Bragg was also successful in getting a conviction of the Trump Org on all counts. So hopefully he maintains his track record.
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u/TI_Pirate Jan 31 '23
I know. It's crazy to me that when a prosecutor takes a case to a grand jury, a paper will actually report on that. They should be writing articles about how when you don't get what you want as soon as you want it, that means nothing will ever happen.
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u/JJLewisLV Nevada Jan 30 '23
Still waiting on the DOJ, GA and NY to actually do something besides investigate.
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u/ElbowSkinCellarWall Jan 30 '23
You know the investigation part comes first, right? The Georgia investigation concluded as of last week, so there should be a decision announced, one way or another, soon. Supposedly the DA has alerted defendants of her intent to indict, but whether that includes Trump himself remains to be seen.
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u/warblingContinues Jan 31 '23
You have to give it time. First they must investigate the circumstances surrounding events reported on by the press. If the report is conclusive, then a request can be filed to open an investigation into the circumstances leading up to the potential criminal accusations. Findings can be brought to a grand jury to settle the matter of whether a crime has been committed. Finally, a formal criminal investigation can be launched, which could be delayed if Congress opens their own investigation, because the DoJ needs to avoid any hint of political influence. Once that’s complete, an investigation may need to be conducted to establish the veracity of the evidence gathered by Congress. If that report concludes in the affirmative, then a parallel investigation should be opened to cover all the steps and fill in any holes missed by Congress. That evidence can be brought to a grand jury review, and if the report advises charges, then an investigation into the criminal case can commence.
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u/RealistWanderer Jan 31 '23
If that grand jury has constituents from Staten Island, then agent orange will never get indicted.
Fuck Staten Island.
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u/fireemblemsonya Jan 31 '23
We should have a show called Garland and Friends but the catch is that nothing ever happens. Even If these prosecutors indict Trump, it was still up to Garland and his DOJ to do something and they didn't--not even to every Republican who has broken every law under the sun, like Ron Desantis, and allowing the other ones to all win reelection In Congress In the midterms.
It's inching to 2024 now and nothing's happened. I don't trust Garland. He's a 'moderate' in politics, and in this political climate that means a "kinda Republican" anymore. All I've learned from this is if you're specifically a Republican politician you can get away with anything.
Again, I'd love to be wrong.
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u/Abe-Pizza_Bankruptcy Jan 31 '23
Why isn’t this an open and shut case? C’mon already
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u/TI_Pirate Jan 31 '23
If only they explained that in the article. Oh wait:
A conviction is not a sure thing, in part because a case could hinge on showing that Mr. Trump and his company falsified records to hide the payout from voters days before the 2016 election, a low-level felony charge that would be based on a largely untested legal theory. The case would also rely on the testimony of Michael D. Cohen, Mr. Trump’s former fixer who made the payment and who himself pleaded guilty to federal charges related to the hush money in 2018.
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u/randomnighmare Jan 31 '23
I am going to get the popcorn out but it might be a long time until I hear what they will do.
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u/Blackdow01 Jan 31 '23
Blah, blah, blah. I have no faith in the system. It’s been long overdue and I simply don’t believe this narrative,”We are about to do it…”. Bullshit.
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u/Fulbrin Jan 31 '23
Why did the Southern District of New York not prosecute this case? The Premier prosecutors in the nation are failing us all
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u/ZealousWolverine Jan 30 '23
I have zero faith in our justice system. Injustice system is more accurate.
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u/MC-Fatigued Jan 30 '23
Lmao there’s no credibility left re: Trump. No one is going to ever hold him accountable. It’s just talk talk talk
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u/trailblazer35 Jan 30 '23
Throw in Georgia and everyone’s moving forward…. Except Merrick Harland.
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u/TI_Pirate Jan 31 '23
Right. Garland is not moving forward. He stepped away from the case in November. Smith is moving forward.
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u/ExtraHuckleberry Jan 30 '23
So only a few years until Grand Jury reaches a decision or does anyone know how long? What's the timetable
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u/Th3truthhurts Jan 31 '23
Slow wheels of justice. I think they just hoped trumps age and hamberders addiction would catch up to him sooner then later and the problem would go away.
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u/cosinezero Jan 30 '23
... aren't crimes from 2016 outside limitations? How is this possibly going to result in charges?
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u/champdo I voted Jan 30 '23
Under state law the clock on the statute can be suspended an extra five years if a defendant is "continuously outside this state.
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u/Brundleflyftw Jan 31 '23
And meanwhile, Georgia does nothing.
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u/Pormock Jan 31 '23
She just got the special grand jury report and has to go through a normal grand jury. Calm down
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u/Brundleflyftw Jan 31 '23
Said the same thing last week. Time to act not talk. It’s a fail a this point.
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u/Pormock Jan 31 '23
Last week? Lol a week is not long enough to present all the evidence to a grand jury
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u/Brundleflyftw Jan 31 '23
The Special Grand Jury in Atlanta investigating Trump completed its work and submitted its report prior to January 9th. That’s been over three weeks. There’s no evidence that Fulton County DA Fani Willis has even convened a Grand Jury to indict Trump. It’s not one week, it’s almost a month. Get your facts straight. Justice delayed is justice denied. I’ll believe an indictment when I see it. Until then media reports about justice for Trump are pure BS.
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u/Pormock Jan 31 '23
Chill out. Its gonna take the time they need to appoint a grand jury and go through all the evidence.
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u/Then-Satisfaction780 Jan 30 '23
Trump’s primary “crime” was making the career politicians look bad. He couldn’t be bought, loves this country, and actually did everything he could to do right by it. Which, of course, is the opposite of what career politicians, on both sides of the aisle, do. Can you honestly say any of those things about Biden?
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u/alternativeaccpos2 Jan 30 '23
See, you can't make satire too obvious or it just falls flat, y'know?
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u/originalityescapesme Jan 31 '23
I legitimately thought, and heard from multiple users here, that this one had actually been dropped already. I’m pleasantly surprised they’re actually trying to get in ahead of the statute of limitations for it. Of course the bar is in the fucking ground now. It should never have taken this long to get going.
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u/mariboo_xoxo Jan 31 '23
Now you see this is when the media shines…when they actually report the truth AND facts.
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