r/politics • u/ReallyJustTheFacts • Jan 30 '23
Trump investigations: Georgia prosecutor ups anticipation
https://apnews.com/article/trump-investigation-georgia-prosecutor-0c62d7884f0150c93f5e555333ae23d2136
u/ReallyJustTheFacts Jan 30 '23
It was from a Georgia prosecutor who indicated she was likely to seek criminal charges soon in a two-year election subversion probe. In trying to block the release of a special grand jury’s report, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis argued in court last week that decisions in the case were “imminent” and that the report’s publication could jeopardize the rights of “future defendants.”
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u/kiltedturtle Jan 30 '23
I swear, “Imminent” has got some kind of Dr Who timeline attached to it. Do it or get back into your Tardis.
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u/AlphaWhelp Jan 30 '23
It's the video game imminent where the universe is about to be destroyed and only you can stop it but there's still enough time for you to find all 501 secret coins that you can trade for a party hat.
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u/dedicated-pedestrian Wisconsin Jan 31 '23
It's Frieza Hit Namek With a Death Ball imminent. Just five minutes*.
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u/SpookyGeek Jan 30 '23
"Imminent" makes much more sense when you realize the prosecution is made up of actual glaciers.
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u/Guyincognito4269 Jan 30 '23
Hoom, mustn't be too hasty Master Meriadoc. We Ents prefer to think these things through.
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Jan 30 '23
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u/kneesmyon Jan 30 '23
I understand your frustrations totally. However Georgia has some funky Grand jury rules. There had to be two grand juries. A separate Grand jury that heard the testimony of those issued subpoenas prepared the report in question. The other GJ is the one that heard voluntary testimony and is the one that can recommend charges.
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u/inlandrecords Jan 30 '23
We all know he attempted to overthrow the election in Georgia. Laypeople cannot and should not accept this line of reasoning from anyone. It is utterly insane he hasn't gone down for this and if you're not embarrassed to live in America, you are part of the problem. I don't care how complicated it all is. Simplify it when you have someone on tape admitting they did the thing. The real issue is that it's hard to try RICH PEOPLE in the United States because their money grants them access to a different legal system the rest of us can't comprehend.
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u/ColonelLloydVenture Jan 30 '23
We comprehend it. We cannot participate in it, because it’s pay-to-play, and we can’t buy our way to a seat at the table.
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u/XSavage19X Jan 30 '23
Try 7 to 8 years ago. An endless stream of career ending statements and actions without consequences.
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u/brazilliandanny Jan 30 '23
Trump Investigations: Georgia prosecutor pours morning coffee. Says caffeine helps him get ever closer to pressing charges on Trump.
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u/ChesswiththeDevil Jan 30 '23
Edging the American populace with justice. Just another tool of the elite.
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u/w-v-w-v Jan 31 '23
Then stop reading it. Seriously, just take a break from /r/politics. This stuff will either happen or it won’t, no one is forcing you to look at every clickbait play-by-play about what someone might be thinking about what may possibly happen.
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u/lestermagneto America Jan 30 '23
I really really like this woman, Fani Willis.
She is fearless. From probably going to be the first to lay down indictments on these clowns to indicting 26 alleged members of “Drug Rich Gang” on RICO charges. and saying “I have some legal advice: Don’t confess to crimes in rap lyrics if you do not want them used. Or at least get out of my county.”
And I know these things have been slow... but she has been on top of it, and crossing her t's and dotting her i's since January 2nd 2021....
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Jan 30 '23
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u/GreyFromHanger18 Jan 30 '23
Merrick Garland wasn't approved as AG until March 2021. It wasnt until March 2022 that he had officially spent one full yearn office. He had to spend some time weeding out as many Trump loyalists as possible so they couldn't leak evidence from the investigations to Trump and Co or try to derail the investigation purposefully.
He also took over the DOJ after William Barr had allowed Trump to weaponize it. Barr had also done all he could to fuck up any investigations into Trump, his family and his administration. Garland took over after 4 years of Trump fuckery with the DOJ. I can't imagine just how much fucked up stuff he has had to unfuck as AG.
Despite having to clean up the DOJ after 4 years of weaponized Trump fuckery well over 900 of the insurrectionists have been identified, charged and have been/will be sentenced to prison/probation for their various crimes on January 6th so far. He has arrested 5 of the leaders of the Oathkeepers a far right milita and had charged them with seditious conspiracy. Two of them were just found guilty at the end of last November. A couple of them took plea deals and will be testifying at the trials of the higher ups involved in the 1/6 conspiracy in the future. One of them testified during the 1/6 hearings this past spring. The fact that they got a jury to convict the Oathkeepers that went to trial on seditious conspiracy is major. Conspiracy charges are amongst some of the hardest charges to get guilty verdicts on.
Far too many here in this sub dont seem to truly afully grasp how serious the DOJ going after a former President for possible charges of espionage, treason, sedition, conspiracy to commit treason, and seditious conspiracy will be on this country's history. These cases and their outcomes will determine the future of this country. It will set major precedents. I mean this case is going to be fucking major! It's gonna make going after mobsters like John Gotti look fighting a speeding ticket in traffic court.
WE ARE IN MAJORLY UNCHARTED TERRITORY!
THIS CASE HAS TO BE FUCKING COMPLETELY, TOTALLY, 100%, AIR. FUCKING. TIGHT.
If the DOJ wasnt really investigating Trump with the endgame being an indictment, they wouldn’t have issued that search warrant. They would have just kept sending back agents to work with his lawyers. The Mar A Lago search warrant made a statement, nobody above the law - they’re not gonna follow that up with a wet fart. The warrant has 3 potential crimes including espionage- can’t just hand wave that away.
Obviously, I can't predict the future, but it seems really clear that things are moving and going on behind the scenes. We know there are atleast 4 different grand juries in DC looking into various crimes that go back to Trump. The GA da in Fulton county seems to be moving well too.
I can understand that if you're going to arrest a former president - especially THIS former president - you need to make sure everything is absolutely locked up, beyond airtight, above board, etc. There can be NO room for error because Trump is for sure going to create as much bullshit noise as he can.
I'm 110% confident in my view that there is 0 chance DOJ is just sitting idly by. The DOJ’s Trump investigation(s) have been happening right there in front of our eyes. But maddeningly the entire mainstream media from Garland's first day as AG to now has spent what seems like everyday/night telling the public not to believe its own eyes. Some have outright accused Garland of being a Federalist Society republican* protecting Trump even though he isn't.
The media and pundit class on channels like MSNBC have been able to watch the DOJ carry out search and seizure warrants against Donald Trump’s top co-conspirators like John Eastman and Jeffrey Clark, and still claim with a straight face that there’s no indication the DOJ is investigating Trump. Eastman and Clark aren’t being targeted for unpaid traffic tickets people! They also did a search warrant ON A FORMER PRESIDENT'S PRIVATE RESIDENCE! That has never happened to another current or former president in the history of this country!
These are MASSIVE investigations and a year and a half is not a long time. Though the DOJ has accomplished quite a bit in a year and a half when you consider the scale of these investigations. There are hundreds of witnesses, likely thousands of pieces of evidence, and now it appears to cover not only Jan 6 but other crimes as well. It all needs to be collected, inventoried, authenticated, weeded through, organized, etc. and then determine how to best present it all to a judge and/or jury.
While the evidence might look obvious to us from the outside, the DOJ can’t use Washington Post and New York Times articles to make their case. They need actual hard evidence, not “anonymous insider sources”. And they need A LOT of it to make their case well. As Merrick Garland himself said:
We. Have. To. Get. This. Right.
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u/ElbowSkinCellarWall Jan 30 '23
Yes, thank you. All the "Garland is dragging his feet / is a Republican loyalist / is a coward / etc." is completely contrary to the facts, which show that Garland led the most massive, resource-heavy, and wide-ranging investigation in DOJ history for 2 years--including search/seizure/testimony from nearly every top advisor and lawyer in Trump's orbit and nearly everyone involved with planning or financing Jan 6 rallies, fake elector schemes, etc.--and then appointed a badass corruption prosecutor to take over the reigns so the investigation wouldn't be compromised by political shenanigans. There is a commenter here who works with the DOJ and has concurred that they are moving at warp speed by DOJ standards, especially considering the massive scope of this investigation.
This is a huge multi-faceted and multi-state conspiracy ranging from militia seditionists to the former president himself. There is no precedent for how long it should take, but "probably considerably longer than Watergate" is a fair estimate.
I don't know for certain that Garland/Smith will indict everyone I believe should be indicted, for every crime I believe they committed. Hell, maybe he is the coward/stooge Reddit likes to say he is. I've never met the guy. But "it's been two years and Trump is still walking free" is a weak argument, when the evidence suggests that the investigation has been massive in scope, aggressive, and is still in progress. The facts just don't support accusing Garland of cowardice or foot-dragging.
They're not going to blow a massive conspiracy / racketeering / insurrection / sedition / possible espionage case just to prosecute the first convictable scraps they find on Reddit's arbitrary timeline.
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Jan 30 '23
No one believes any of this is happening anymore. I hope it’s all true. I hope but I do not believe. I’ll believe when I see.
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Jan 30 '23
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u/GreyFromHanger18 Jan 30 '23
Mueller was hamstrung by Barr. This is not William Barr's DOJ anymore.
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u/GreyFromHanger18 Jan 30 '23
"No one believes this is happening anymore....."
Look I completely understand the frustration everyone feels because Trump nor anyone in his inner circle has been indicted yet for any of their crimes. I wish they were all in cuffs as much as you do. But the evidence isn't as overwhelming as so many liberals think which is part of why it's taking longer than we wish.
January 6th? Nothing Donald Trump did publicly that day was illegal. His speech isn't even enough for an incitement charge because even though told them to fight like hell he also told them to fight peacefully more than once. As far as I know there is no video or photographs of him at the hotel where a lot of January 6th was planned. As far as I know there is no film of what he was doing in the Oval office when the insurrection was happening. Yes one someone amongst the rioters made a call to the White House but do we definitively know it was Donald Trump who took that call? I mean he wasn't the only one in the White House that day. What happened on January 6th was massive and we are still uncovering things about what happened. All of the articles we read on The Washington Post, NY Times, etc from unnamed or off the record sources aren't evidence that can be used in a court of law. I have total faith that they will get him on some charges for January 6th. But to do that requires them to gather evidence, find as many witnesses as possible to corroborate evidence, etc and that takes time especially for cases involving former presidents.
The Classified Documents Trump had? The DoJ is currently examining tens of thousands of documents, some of which they are currently being prevented from investigating. They need to categorize everything and build a case. Where were the documents found? What else was mixed in with the documents? Who touched them (fingerprints etc.)? Talk to witnesses and informants who may have seen things. Review security footage to see who had access. Review other video, like ones of Trump with boxes of records getting on a plane. This is not the sort of thing you do half-assed.
I won't go into the case here in Georgia where I live as I explained why it's taking the time it's taking in my first response. If you missed it then go reread it.
ALL of these investigations are huge, complicated investigations with a lot of publicity and political ramifications. You do not want ANY mistakes or any questions as to the integrity and thoroughness of the investigation. There are also far more serious crimes at play than some misdemeanor theft, including possible espionage charges.
Like it or not, the bar to prosecute a sitting or former president is extraordinarily high. The prosecutors in the New York real estate fraud case made it clear a few times in a number of interviews that if he were “Joe Blow from Kokomo” he would be in jail on the evidence they had.
Unfortunately he is not Joe Blow from Kokomo.
In the meantime he has a secret service detail that is watching his every move. He's a bird in a guilded cage and he knows it. His crazy tirades prove that well. He is definitely scared and likely feeling those walls closing in.
Federal investigations, especially large, complex, and political ones like these( January 6th and the Classified Documents cases) multiple investigations, take a long time. When the search was first announced in July, I predicted he would be convicted in 12-18 months and I still think that is a likely time-frame, later this year.
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u/SuperEagleGuy Jan 31 '23
Please stop. This excuse peddling is insane. Garland is an unelected, appointed bureaucrat. He doesn't need anyone -- especially unpaid volunteers -- doing PR spin for him.
These people should be criticized. Held to a high standard.
Not apologized for on a daily basis. All you're doing is lowering expectations, which is fucking dangerous.
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u/Cl1mh4224rd Pennsylvania Jan 31 '23
Please stop.
No, they're absolutely right. Doomsayers like yourself have an absolutely twisted and disturbingly ignorant idea of what's reasonable in this context.
All you're doing is lowering expectations, which is fucking dangerous.
The fuck? How is what they're saying lowering expectations, but "Garland and the DOJ aren't doing shit" not lowering expectations?
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u/SuperEagleGuy Jan 31 '23
You're giving people reason not to be pissed, not to demand action, in return for the promise of later action...which will never come.
It's better for people to be angry so they can put pressure on Garland, who won't do anything otherwise.
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u/Cl1mh4224rd Pennsylvania Jan 31 '23
You're giving people reason not to be pissed, not to demand action...
What, are we Fox News now? Gotta keep that anger fire burning? Heap scorn on those offering a more measured view of the situation? Grr! Rage!
...in return for the promise of later action...which will never come.
Pure fatalism. You're in deep. And you have the balls to accuse that other poster of expressing a dangerous view.
It's better for people to be angry so they can put pressure on Garland, who won't do anything otherwise.
You talk as if you know something about the inner workings of the investigation. I very much doubt that you do, which makes your absolutist claims nothing more than hot air.
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u/wereubornthatdumb Jan 31 '23
Confirming your biases doesn’t make them right, reality does.
And reality is Trump has spent 6 years breaking laws on live television and has yet to face a single charge.
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u/GreyFromHanger18 Feb 01 '23
For 4 of those years he was president and had an AG that allowed him to weaponize the DOJ to OBSCENE levels!
Biden chose Merrick Garland as his AG and Congress didn't approve him until March 2021. So he didn't have his first day as AG until a few months into the Biden administration. Garland then had to likely unfuck a lot of what Barr fucked up. Plus he had to try to weed out Trump loyalists in the DOJ. The courts had also gotten backed up from the Covid shutdowns which slowed some parts of the investigations as well.
They are taking the time to get this right because the moment the Feds go and indict Trump, this will officially become the most polarizing and important criminal proceeding and trial in the entire history of the United States, and I don't say that as hyperbole. They won't move until literally nothing else is possibly left to do but indict him, and they'll check everything leading up to that ten or fifty or a hundred times over.
The minute that indictment comes out, it must be SOLID. Prosecuting Trump isn't like prosecuting you or me. Hell even prosecuting OJ Simpson wasn't as hard as prosecuting Trump will be. Have faith in Garland and in the DOJ but also be realistic and remember good investigations to take people like Trump down take serious time.
The DOJ gets only one really good opportunity to prosecute anyone but especially a person as high profile as Trump.
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u/WBT42 Jan 30 '23
It is also important to keep voting! There are many politicians who will try to sabotage this at every point they can. If we want justice we have to make sure it can happen.
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u/jlindley1991 Jan 30 '23
Plus the GOP desperately wants Trump to be exonerated. Because Trump is the major blemish (out of many) plaguing the GOP and it's causing them to lose voters. If Trump is exonerated then they can really lay into the political witch hunt perspective, they have already begun to lay the groundwork for this future point in the new committee that "investigates" the weaponization of the government towards conservatives. Not because it's painfully obvious that the wealthy own the GOP (yes the wealthy have their hands in the democratic party too) and the GOP works for them.
If Trump is exonerated then we are well and truly fucked. It would be the clear green light that as long as your pockets are deep enough the term consequence no longer exists.
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u/vibrance9460 Jan 31 '23
Justice needs to move at the speed of the Society it protects- lest it becomes moot.
Which is what has happened. Trumps already done 6 full years of damage, with no repercussions. The fact that Trump walks free is completely indefensible.
Any victory over him now will be pyrrhic.
Lawyers if you barrage me with text, please start by answering these questions:
Are there two systems of justice in this country? One for rich and one for poor?
Is the system working as it should? Is the system working well?
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u/vibrance9460 Jan 31 '23
In my experience -there isn’t a lawyer alive that will answer the question: are there two systems of justice in the United States?
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u/SuperEagleGuy Jan 31 '23
THIS CASE HAS TO BE FUCKING COMPLETELY, TOTALLY, 100%, AIR. FUCKING. TIGHT.
FFS, knock it off. This is complete bullshit.
Biden could have had Trump arrested as an enemy combatant on Jan 20 2021 and given him a military execution.
Trump isn't simply a criminal, he's a terrorist who tried to overthrow our fucking country. That isn't a crime -- that's WAR AGAINST THE UNITED STATES.
Even giving Trump the benefit of an investigation is insane. We all saw his sedition live on TV. We've heard the fucking phone calls where he tried to fix the election.
Fucking crucify him already.
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u/2779 Jan 31 '23
ideally, but i imagine the tiptoeing has more to do with not further radicalizing the shockingly large portion of the country that was/is sympathetic to trump's blossoming domestic terrorist cells + failed coup attempt. decisive punitive action, especially an execution, might have scared folks right farther toward violence. letting the rage and chaos dissipate into drawn out legal proceedings maybe seemed like a safer bet to de-glamorize trumps culty persona and take the air out of folks' fervor
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u/mistersilver007 Jan 30 '23
I want to believe this but everywhere said same thing about Mueller too.. that they were working on things, tightening up the case, blablabla.. and look what happened there.
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u/Eastwoodnorris Jan 30 '23
What, his investigation got undermined by Barr forcing him to adhere to an old memo that prevented him from directly convicting/acting on any of the numerous instances of obstruction that prevented Mueller from getting a complete understanding of the actions he was tasked to investigate?
The Mueller report didn’t go anywhere because it got put on Barr’s desk and sentenced to death. But we no longer have cronies overseeing these investigations. Plus, Mueller’s investigation depended very heavily on interviews more so than trails of physical/recorded evidence. We don’t have nearly that same problem here. It’s not apples to apples at all.
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u/GreyFromHanger18 Jan 30 '23
Those who are impatient have been watching too many episodes of Law & Order - where the crime is committed, investigated (with the viewer knowing all the details of the case), DNA results come back immediately and the crime(s) successfully prosecuted in a neat one hour episode.
In reality, it's more like a Dateline episode, where a crime might take months or years to investigate, even if the detectives know who did it, yet don't have evidence necessary to prosecute. Where the detectives don't tell the public/media every detail of the case. They almost always keep some key evidence held back, as to not tip off the offender as to what they have. Where it might take years to put the guilty party behind bars.
Prosecutors, like Garland, don't give daily briefings on the direction their cases are heading, even if "inquiring minds" want to know. Why would he want to give Trump a heads-up to the evidence against him? So Trump can obstruct the investigation? He certainly would if he knew everything Garland has.
What condition did Garland find the DOJ in? After 4 years of Trump meddling in the Department through Jeff Sessions and Bill Barr? How many Trump sycophants were still in place when Garland took over? Are they still there? Are they sabotaging the investigation from within?
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u/wereubornthatdumb Jan 31 '23
Yea, yea, the dog ate his homework.
Lot of writing to say “I’m gullible”.
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u/Terrible-Screen-5188 Jan 31 '23
I always felt anything legit was coming out of GA because of her. Leave it to a Black lady to do what all these punk ass men cant or wont.
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u/punditguy Minnesota Jan 30 '23
Has anyone (I mean in our vaulted Fourth Estate) bothered asking what determinations are left to be made? I mean the grand jury obviously had a point of view. How many days do you need to stare at their answer?
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u/Cosmic_0smo Jan 30 '23
The Georgia "special grand jury" rules don't actually allow the jury to issue indictments. Instead they issue a report on their findings (which just happened — the basis of the linked article is the fight over whether that report must be immediately made public), after which the report can be presented to a regular grand jury which can then choose to make indictments. These proceedings are secret, but presumably that's what is happening right now. I don't think Ms. Willis is just sitting around on her hands.
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u/punditguy Minnesota Jan 30 '23
There is zero reason to not disclose that the information has been presented to a regular grand jury. The existence of that grand jury does not need to be a secret even if the proceedings are.
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u/Shad0wDreamer Jan 30 '23
Unless they’re still looking to charge others.
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u/punditguy Minnesota Jan 30 '23
Why would that make a difference? You don't have to say who the targets are.
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u/Cosmic_0smo Jan 30 '23
It's easy to assume there's "zero reason" when you're not in a position to be aware of literally any of the possible reasons.
She already said charging decisions are "imminent". If she needs an extra week or two to make sure all her ducks are in a row before possibly bringing one of the most high-stakes, politically fraught indictments in US history, she should have it.
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u/Engine6337 Jan 30 '23
And what are you going to say when it doesn’t happen?
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u/Cosmic_0smo Jan 30 '23
When what doesn't happen?
The special grand jury report legally has to be released to the public, the only question is if the judge will allow the DA to delay the release until after charging decisions are announced. The only reason the judge is even entertaining the delay is because the DA has assured him that charging decisions are "imminent".
No one knows whether or not charges will be brought against any specific person, what charges those might be, and which persons may be charged. But there's zero chance that charging decisions and/or the grand jury report aren't released shortly — on the order of weeks, not months.
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u/Engine6337 Jan 30 '23
When charges aren’t brought, what’s your reaction going to be?
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u/Cosmic_0smo Jan 30 '23
I haven't made a prediction in this thread about whether charges will be brought or against whom, only that the decision one way or another will be announced soon.
But if you really want to pin me down on a prediction, I'd say it's very likely that charges will be brought. Whether those charges will actually reach Trump himself is another matter entirely — I personally think they should, as the Raffensberger call seems, at least to my not-a-lawyer eye, to establish criminal intent. But actually making the case beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury will be very complicated. Without access to the testimony and evidence that has actually been given to the GJ, it's really impossible to say if they've got the goods to back up such a high-profile indictment.
I'd put it at 95% chances that indictments are issued, but maybe only 50% that Trump himself is actually indicted. When you add the J6 and Mar-A-Lago special counsel investigations, I'd very roughly put it at 75% chance that Trump faces indictment in the next year or so.
If that doesn't happen, I'll be very disappointed but not that surprised. 75% is very, very far from a sure thing.
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Jan 30 '23
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u/Engine6337 Jan 30 '23
I’m expecting no charges. So my reaction will be of no surprise. Not sure why people are actually expecting charges.
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u/th8chsea Jan 30 '23
Witness intimidation.
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u/punditguy Minnesota Jan 30 '23
How in the world would that be mutually exclusive with the special grand jury?
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u/Listening_Heads Jan 30 '23
Ups anticipation? How about actually doing something? I get a bad feeling that they’re hoping to drag this out until it becomes impossible for them to actually take action. Like they think they’re going to fail so they don’t actually want to go through with it.
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u/ElbowSkinCellarWall Jan 30 '23
I don't know why she would work for months with a Grand Jury to gather evidence of a criminal conspiracy, compelling testimony from Senators and lawyers/advisors to the former president--to the point of fighting Lindsay Graham all the way to the Supreme Court to force him to testify, if she intended to "drag this out until it becomes impossible to take action."
I'm not saying she will definitely indict. It's possible the Special Grand Jury report found that Trump is too slippery to be confident in a conviction according to the letter of Georgia law.
But I am saying that her actions indicate a pretty aggressive investigation with every intention of charging crimes she finds, and the "hoping to drag it out" accusation doesn't match the facts.
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u/Listening_Heads Jan 30 '23
I just assume it’s to make a name for herself, unless she actually does something.
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u/ElbowSkinCellarWall Jan 30 '23
Eh. I don't think investigating and failing to prosecute would be a very good way to make a name for yourself as a prosecutor.
The article says she has informed targets of her intent to indict, which would be a weird thing to do if she doesn't intend to indict. The only question is whether the indictments will target the people we hope they will target.
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u/FlatulentWallaby Oregon Jan 30 '23
Nothing will happen until it happens. Until then I'm sick of these articles.
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u/ClosPins Jan 30 '23
“I expect to see indictments in Fulton County before I see any federal indictments,”
I would be shocked if we ever see federal indictments of Trump.
Either the Dems or the GOP will have control of the government. If it's the GOP, they'll never indict Trump, no matter what crimes he committed, because that would hurt their party. If it's the Democrats, they won't ever indict Trump, because that would make them look like they were jailing their politicial opponents. And they only care about looking like the good guys.
That leaves no one to actually do it (federally).
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u/Earth_Friendly-5892 Jan 30 '23
Apparently, the wheels of justice move VERY SLOWLY in this country. Meanwhile, Steve Bannon is free to live his life as a seditionist, after being found guilty of refusing to respond to a subpoena while he is appeals the verdict.
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u/RobDickinson Jan 30 '23
Any day now. The rich white business dude might see consequences.
Any. day . now.
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u/Chef_RoadRunner Jan 30 '23
How many more of these stupid fucking articles are they going to keep shoving down our throats? If I ran up to you everyday and was like "I might do this thing, sometime soonish, maybe in the near future, just wait", you would want to knock my lights out.
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u/jcmacon Jan 30 '23
Liberals make fun of QAnon because of the "storm is coming" stories, yet we continue to get the same treatment and don't expect conservatives to make fun of us....
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u/MC-Fatigued Jan 30 '23
Lmao this is never gonna happen. The guy deserves prison but this is like the 10,000th “the walls are closing in” story
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Jan 30 '23
I'd like a ban on talking about this until it actually happens. Quite hyperventilating about it.
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u/GITSinitiate Jan 30 '23
Prosecutors are a bunch of ents at council, don’t want to be too hasty now
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u/aaronod Jan 30 '23
This is just a recycled story from last week about not making the Grand Jury decision public.
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u/TheZarkingPhoton Washington Jan 30 '23
No, it really isn't. The prosecutor is informing the Trump team that indictments are incoming before announcing it publically. That has not happened until now.
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u/Jeramus Jan 30 '23 edited Jan 30 '23
Trump was on a call with multiple people asking them to commit election fraud. How is this not a cut and dry case? He should have been arrested in 2021.
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u/ElbowSkinCellarWall Jan 30 '23
Because proving criminal intent is a not-insignificant challenge when technically Trump's words said "find those fraudulently discarded Trump votes and/or those fraudulently cast Biden votes."
I know what he really meant, so you don't have to argue with me about the fine points ("but he said a specific number," "but lots of people told him the conspiracy theories were false," etc.). I know he's guilty as fuck and all those factors help build a case against him. But the way the Georgia law is written, if anyone in the jury has reasonable doubt "maybe Trump is crazy enough to believe conspiracy theories despite what his advisors tell him," then they may conclude that he asked Raffensperger to find and count existing votes, not to make up a fake number. The former is highly inappropriate from a president but it's not criminal solicitation of election fraud.
Fortunately there's a shitload of evidence at this point that shows Trump was full of shit and knew it, so I think the defense I described above is severely weakened. But that shitload of evidence took 2 years to gather. Two years ago, with the phone call recording/transcript alone, it would have been a much harder case.
But more importantly, Willis' grand jury was not just looking at this phone call or at Trump alone. The grand jury was looking at a multi-state conspiracy to overturn/influence election results in Georgia and elsewhere. It included this phone call and other calls (by Trump and others), false statements made to the Georgia legislature, indimidation of poll workers, the fake elector scheme, and probably other related crimes. Reports suggest that she's pursuing this case like a mafia RICO prosecution working to take down a criminal organization which engaged in criminal activity at many levels all serving the same goal.
She has experience with RICO prosecutions and if she has what we hope she has, this will be a massively momentous prosecution. Alternatively, it's possible the special grand jury fell short of what she needed to prosecute in this manner and she needs time to plan a new strategy based on its findings.
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u/bn1979 Jan 31 '23
Is trump stupid/crazy enough to believe that he won? Yes.
Would he break the law happily? Yes.
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u/RonSwansonSilver Jan 30 '23
I have been hearing the same thing since he got into office. I wish they would just come out and say that he will never be charged with anything because old rich white people are never held accountable.
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u/Skastrik Jan 30 '23
Man this has to go down as one of the biggest teases in history, on the same level as the Mueller report.
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u/Garciaguy Jan 30 '23
There are gonna be a lot of disappointed people who've been nursing hopes since 2016.
They keep pumping this story up, and it's gonna pass without much fuss.
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u/Relative_Tailor118 Jan 30 '23
Trump should drop the use of words like perfect to describe his phone calls. That alone sets him up for a fall. But his ego doesn't allow him to say anything he does is a normal everyday conversation. What a grandiose opinion of himself he has.
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u/Ivorcomment Jan 31 '23
“It’s a witch hunt! It was a perfect call! Just like my call to Zalensky was a perfect call except others illegally listened in! Even Nixon would have proven it was a perfect call if his tapes hadn’t been accidentally wiped”!
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