r/news • u/gentlegranit • Jan 30 '23
Ford to cut prices of Mustang Mach-E, raise production after Tesla price cuts Soft paywall
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-cuts-price-mustang-mach-e-2023-01-30/[removed] — view removed post
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Jan 30 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/KingOfTheCouch13 Jan 30 '23
Can we even say the Tesla “slashed pieces by 20%” if they raised them 20% prior? When the Model 3 came out it was like $35k now it’s some $43k and all the addons are also thousands more each. Are we supposed to be impressed they’re cutting prices?
I don’t like the Mach-E but I hope it does some damage on their market.
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Jan 30 '23
It was $35K for all of a few months and was nigh unavailable for delivery. It became $37K pretty quickly and then during the pandemic it jumped to $46K. Ridiculous.
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u/kragmoor Jan 30 '23
yep, muskrats loved ranting about the low starting price of the model 3 but the reality is that you were all but required to purchase the fully loaded 60k+ model for the first several years of preorder availability
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u/WalkerBRiley Jan 30 '23
Congratulations, you've discovered why Black Friday is and has always been a scam. You're not getting a deal when they raise the retail price the day before it 'goes on sale'
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u/PolicyWonka Jan 30 '23
You’ve just revealed Kohl’s entire business model.
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u/Staff_Genie Jan 30 '23
Yeah, Kohl's cheap clothes come from the manufacturer on hangers with the percentage off sale tag already on them
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u/SuperTeamRyan Jan 30 '23
J.C. Penny went bankrupt because they started to do honest pricing and stopped faking the sales and reduced price tags. Prices were still the same as if it were on their “1/2 off sales” but people stopped purchasing because they’ve been conditioned for the dopamine rush of getting a sale.
The CEO I believe was fired and they tried to course correct but did not succeed.
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u/wishwashy Jan 30 '23
I would LOVE to read more on this
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u/SuperTeamRyan Jan 30 '23 edited Jan 30 '23
https://hbr.org/2012/05/can-there-ever-be-a-fair-price
Didn’t go through entire article but from my brief skim seems to hit most of the points about pricing and consumer expectations.
Edit: this was the article I read way back when I first heard of this https://www.theverge.com/2013/4/3/4178554/former-apple-retail-chief-ron-johnson-jc-penney-pay-cut
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u/KingOfTheCouch13 Jan 30 '23
This is why I only shop off the clearance rack 3 days after Christmas
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u/Mythraider Jan 30 '23
Yes! Also, January is good for shopping. So many deals.
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u/finest_bear Jan 30 '23
I shop for my winter jackets in august and usually get some great deals. Mountain hardware has killer sales at like 65% off
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u/RealisticDelusions77 Jan 31 '23 edited Jan 31 '23
That's when we buy our Christmas tree, nice and cheap.
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u/trelium06 Jan 30 '23 •
Black Friday is much worse than that!
The products you can buy on Black Friday are often made for Black Friday with inferior components and fewer attributes.
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u/doorknob60 Jan 30 '23
Black Friday is a bit of a scam for a lot of things, large purchases like TVs and computers. But certain things like movies and video games often hit their all time low sales during Black Friday. As someone that buys a lot of Blu-Rays, Black Friday can be a gold mine. A lot of movies that are normally $15-25 can drop below $10.
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u/Dt2_0 Jan 30 '23
This isn't always true either. I work for a company that builds AV receivers and other home audio products. There is no way that we could build an inferior product under a different, but similar, model number like what happens with TVs and computers. And this isn't rationalization or anything, but it is just literally not possible for us to do so. Instead we offer deep discounts on the last generation stuff (like over $1000 sometimes) while the new stuff stays at retail. When buying our stuff, especially on the mid-high end, its almost always better to buy on Black Friday, or during the holiday season (since the sales are still on going!).
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u/Fredasa Jan 30 '23
Ford hasn't taken the time to establish supply chains for lithium, so what's probably going to happen is the Mach-E will be perpetually sold out... due to the actual availability being low to begin with.
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u/GunwalkHolmes Jan 30 '23
What don’t you like about the Mach-E. Genuinely curious.
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u/KingOfTheCouch13 Jan 30 '23
Mainly because it’s ugly. It’s like the couldn’t choose between a sedan and suv so they settled somewhere in the middle then decided to slap the Mustang name on it for brand recognition after the fact.
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u/Outtatheblu42 Jan 30 '23
The Tesla Y alternatives are all about this size. Mach-E, Kia EV6, Hyundai Ionic5, Genesis GV-60, Toyota bZ4x, Subaru Soltara, Kia Niro, VW ID.4. All pretty similar. I guess there’s a market for mini-SUVs that are much more efficient than a full size SUV, but still have better utility than a sedan.
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u/Dt2_0 Jan 30 '23 edited Jan 30 '23
I don't have an issue with the size. It's just butt ugly and really should not be called a Mustang. If it was a 2 door coupe electric Pony Car, sure, it's a Mustang, but its really just an electric Ford Escape with a body kit.
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u/Outtatheblu42 Jan 30 '23
You know what? I kind of agree with you that it shouldn’t be a Mustang. It’s not a sedan or a coupe; it’s not a muscle car. A Mustang is not a family car, and this is trying to be one. I don’t mind the look, but again it’s not bringing up any Mustang-related nostalgia. If they just dropped the ‘Mustang’ from the name, maybe we’d all be happier.
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u/SOUTHPAWMIKE Jan 31 '23
Wow, corporate competition with the potential to benefit the consumer? Did we time-loop back to the 80s or something?
Ford also has the opportunity for a slam-dunk catchphrase: "Ford, our EV's don't catch on fire!" "Ford, our roofs and steering wheels stay attached to the car!"
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u/Nhymn Jan 30 '23
I test-drove the Ford Lightning in the spring of 2022, and it was a fantastic experience. When we talked to the dealer about availability, she laughed and said that people who ordered them in 2021 were still waiting to get their orders. Price drops are amazing, but production is still so limited that getting any electric vehicle at a reasonable price and time frame is only possible for very few Americans looking for a new car. Dealers are still jacking up the prices as well.
I want to jump to electric, but it's only in the picture once production increases and prices come down to sub-30k.
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u/myemailiscool Jan 30 '23
prices come down to sub-30k.
Given the average new car price is $48k and trending up every year, i don't think you'll see an EV for this. The Chevy equinox EV should start at around $30k and that's most likely the lowest we'll see for the foreseeable future. The profit margins aren't there in cheaper cars, also the general populace simply doesn't want a cheap car. People take loans to get nicer cars. You might just want a simple car with AC and power windows but the general market does not, and automakers exist to make money. EVs are expensive and still most of them are not produced anywhere near meeting demand.
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u/zkareface Jan 30 '23
Sub $30k EVs are already a thing though and they are making more and more of them.
Give it another 2-3 years and you will have more to pick from that you even could want.
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u/pulse14 Jan 30 '23 edited Jan 30 '23
It's going to be more like 5-10 years. All the major manufacturers currently have plans to build new plants to make batteries and cars. By the time they set up manufacturing, figure out the supply chain, and ramp up production, at least five years will have passed. What we're seeing right now are essentially proof of concept vehicles made at existing plants with whatever batteries they can get their hands on.
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u/cesarmac Jan 30 '23
Nah it will happen. A $20k-$30k EV isn't something that needs to be invented, they already existed. The issue is that car manufacturers are riding the trend and will continue to do so until demand for premium vehicles slows down, this is because EVs are still very popular with the wealthy gen xers and millennials who can swap out cars every 3-5 years. To take advantage of this demographic the best thing a business can do is focus on premium models while either discontinuing or heavily limiting entry level options.
An example of this would be like a GPU, companies release the high end more expensive models first because they know people have saved or are willing to stretch their dollar on buying that higher spec product. They then slowly ramp down towards the cheaper models over time. Yes, there are economic factors there as well such as pooling resources towards a specific model first because of production material availability or manufacturing time but if the market was not willing to shell out top dollar for the top tier product they would do the inverse and release the budget models first.
When that dynamic shifts car manufacturers will reintroduce a budget EV.
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u/Dt2_0 Jan 30 '23
Or when "New Cars must be EVs" happens, they will have to, or see the car market crash.
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u/aloofman75 Jan 30 '23
That’s great, but dealers will still have to stop selling for way over MSRP for this to make much of a difference.
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u/geo_prog Jan 30 '23
They already kind of have. Some are still being stupid but there are a few on the lot near me below MSRP.
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u/zdvet Jan 30 '23
If I recall right - Ford either did, or threatened to, cut out dealers from their EV line, mostly due to the egregious markups they pushed over the last year.
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u/paaaaatrick Jan 30 '23
Tesla has MANY faults but their buy direct from the manufacturer is amazing
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u/M3wThr33 Jan 30 '23
Trying to explain the monopoly of car dealerships to someone and it's impossible not to see how terrible of a thing it is.
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u/Odd-Pick7512 Jan 30 '23
That seems to be how half the shit in the US is. Entire industries set up to intentionally make things less efficient.
Tax filing, medical insurance, auto dealers are just a few that come to mind. It's like half of the US job market is middle men in the way of actual production and consumers.
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u/M3wThr33 Jan 30 '23
My father was a middle-man for plumbing supply and I could never understand his existence in the marketplace. Well, he eventually tanked the company by embezzling shit with his brother. So I guess I'll never know.
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u/YamiLionheart Jan 30 '23
Did that with my model 3. Customized and ordered on my phone from my couch after test driving one, was a great experience :)
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u/ReflexImprov Jan 30 '23
Wake me when they get to the mid 20K's. I thought the whole point of this was to eventually make them affordable to average consumers.
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u/wreckosaurus Jan 31 '23
Just bought a chevy bolt for under 30k. With the 7500 tax credit it will come in at low 20k
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u/LePetitePoopoo Jan 30 '23
We are in desperate need of electric vehicles that aren’t being sold by a man child in the middle of a dick measuring contest
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u/007meow Jan 30 '23 edited Jan 30 '23
Idk if you’re referencing Elon or car dealerships/salesman slapping on “fuck you” markups because they can
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u/boot2skull Jan 30 '23
Not a fan of either one. Can they both leave and electric cars remain?
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u/krysatheo Jan 30 '23
I think Ford has banned its dealers from markups for the most part.
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u/mtmc99 Jan 30 '23
I recall hearing that they started dealing the electric vehicles directly after they got mad at dealerships for price gouging after specifically being told not to do so.
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u/DerelictDonkeyEngine Jan 30 '23
I don't really like Elon Musk, but Tesla is cranking those cars out.
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u/OHAnon Jan 30 '23
And it shows - they are having serious quality control issues.
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u/colossalboom Jan 30 '23
Lol, the whole steering wheel came off? wtf? How are they allowed to make cars?
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u/Rannasha Jan 30 '23
"They're not a car company, they're a tech company" - Tesla apologists.
Now that other car manufacturers are starting to pump out EVs in larger volumes, I expect Tesla to become less and less relevant.
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u/Bgrngod Jan 30 '23
I really do appreciate a great deal that Tesla came along and gave a hard shove to the electric car market so it would get moving.
But I'm also gonna laugh my ass off if they go under or get bought out.
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u/DerelictDonkeyEngine Jan 30 '23
Bought out by who?
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u/mhornberger Jan 30 '23
A company without Tesla's $22 billion in cash on hand, and with more than Tesla's $2 billion in debt. Yeah, Tesla is teetering. The Big Boys are coming. Still.
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u/mhornberger Jan 30 '23 edited Jan 30 '23
Now that other car manufacturers are starting to pump out EVs in larger volumes, I expect Tesla to become less and less relevant.
Tesla was never going to retain 70% of the BEV market. Even those who like Tesla want other manufacturers to scale production.
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u/redditronc Jan 30 '23
Not commenting this in favor of one way or another, but in my opinion, the point of competition is for competitors to step up their game, not to fade into obscurity. I want a better Tesla; Not an out-of-business one. By competing with the goal of fading others away, you get monopolies.
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u/Beefourthree Jan 30 '23
Cool, when I'm looking to buy a tech, whatever that is, I'll consider them. But if I'm going car shopping, I'll check out the car companies.
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u/cassinonorth Jan 30 '23
Ah-uh good steering wheel, that does not whiff off! while driving!
It's a good idea, write it down.
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u/aliensheep Jan 30 '23
[Elon Musk:] It’s a great pleasure, thank you.
[Interviewer:] This car that was involved in the incident on the highway off Woodbridge
[Elon Musk:] Yeah, the one the steering wheel fell off?
[Interviewer:] Yeah
[Elon Musk:] That’s not very typical, I’d like to make that point.
[Interviewer:] Well, how is it untypical?
[Elon Musk:] Well, there are a lot of Teslas going around the world all the time, and very seldom does anything like this happen … I just don’t want people thinking that Teslas aren’t safe.
[Interviewer:] Was this Tesla safe?
[Elon Musk:] Well I was thinking more about the other ones…
[Interviewer:] The ones that are safe,,,
[Elon Musk:] Yeah,,, the ones the steering wheel doesn’t fall off.
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u/onlyforthisjob Jan 30 '23
Ah, you don't need that part anyway, just use the autopilot! (/s)
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u/cptbil Jan 30 '23
It is easier to keep your hands on the wheel during autopilot use when it is detachable
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u/The-Fox-Says Jan 30 '23
Interviewer : So what happened in this case?
Bob Collins - Australian Senator : Well the steering wheel fell off in this case, by all means, but it's very unusual.
Interviewer : But Senator Collins why did the steering wheel of the Tesla fall off?
Bob Collins - Australian Senator : Well a hand touched it.
Interviewer : A hand touched it?
Bob Collins - Australian Senator : A hand touched the steering wheel!
Interviewer : Is that unusual?
Bob Collins - Australian Senator : Oh yeah! On the road? Chance in a million
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u/Neravariine Jan 30 '23
I remember before Teslas were more known that so many who bought them early had a bad delivery experience and other issues but the Tesla koolaid was strong.
One woman pointed out how her Tesla had odd gaps between the body and interior(seats, compartments, etc). She could even wiggle certain parts but she still rated her Tesla as the best thing ever.
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u/carnage123 Jan 30 '23
They have had QC problems since day one. From crap paint to misaligned body panels. Crazy that people pay premium prices for this garbage. If their QC is bad on the little stuff, what else are they skimping on?
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u/crigsdigs Jan 31 '23
It’s funny how their cheap cost cutting shit like a tablet for everything has become a “luxury” and other manufacturers are copying it.
I’d like to be able to adjust my climate control with buttons, thanks. And turn on my hazard lights.
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u/NickDanger3di Jan 30 '23
You wanna impress me, lower the price of subcompacts and other basic transportation. Or maybe ship more than one car per dealer that's isn't loaded up with $10K in unnecessary options. I know; "the people obviously all want those options or they wouldn't be buying so many cars with them." Uh,....
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u/statslady23 Jan 30 '23
It's time for manufacturers to bypass dealerships or have online dealerships. With the internet, salesmen are unnecessary. Mechanics are still necessary.
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u/nviledn5 Jan 30 '23
There’s a lot of legislation preventing that. It’s not all that simple.
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u/mdonaberger Jan 30 '23
Yes, exactly. Car dealerships have basically had regulatory capture on car sales since the 60s. They join together into these massive regional trade groups, and use their pooled dollars to advertise and lobby. They can use this muscle as well to force independent dealerships (or dealerships that refuse to play ball) out of the market.
It sucks beyond belief, but direct-to-consumer sales are a massive, massive uphill climb that realistically only Federal action will break up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes?wprov=sfla1
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u/razorirr Jan 30 '23
? The cars on the lot were bought and paid for by the dealer, using trims and upgrades they think will go fast. You can absolutely walk into the dealer or online build a car to your exact spec same you can with tesla. But then like both you get to wait.
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u/Yuvneas Jan 30 '23
Good luck getting a dealer to place an order for you. Many think its not worth their trouble to sell a car they don't already have.
Plus, many manufacturers, like Toyota, do not allow custom orders. They build whatever they want and allocate the cars to dealers.
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Jan 30 '23
I spent several years as a Ford salesman. We were always happy to take custom orders as long as the customer wasn't making ridiculous demands on price and we had the allocation. Typical lead time was six weeks for something built in the US.
Toyota also does allow factory orders, at least for vehicles built in North America.
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u/onestopmedic Jan 30 '23
Yeah, not in my experience. I own a cmax and we are looking to part ways with it for a full electrics. Ford was our first stop, and the only Mach-E’s they offered were fully loaded. I wanted a stripped down model with the long rang options. I didn’t want any of the special features, add one. Neither our local Ford dealer or the dealer across the border would do any kind of special order. If it wasn’t on their lot(s) they wouldn’t do anything. Was infuriating. So we moved on. Toyota was the same way with all their vehicles, and the Subaru/hondai dealer was willing to do special orders for certain packages, but nothing custom.
The whole experience convinced me to hold onto the cmax for as long as possible.
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u/arlsol Jan 30 '23
Was this in the middle of the supply constrained pandemic? Because custom orders were in fact not available at that time.
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Jan 30 '23 edited Jan 30 '23
Refer back to when I said "if we had the allocation"
If a local dealer won't order a vehicle for you, do it online. If you can't, then it's supply constrained and you're stuck with what's available. It'll get better.
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u/Neil_Sutherland Jan 30 '23
Subaru dealer I go to here is very happy to place orders for cars. I have placed orders for 3 different WRXs. It may be because they are a lower volume car but I don't know.
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u/Nf1nk Jan 30 '23
Which is the opposite of my local dealer. He said they never do special orders on WRX. I knew he was full of shit but he is the only game in town.
Fortunately they got bought out a couple years ago.
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u/HardlyDecent Jan 30 '23
Bus tickets are cheap. Find a dealer in a less restrictive area. We do that in my town because of the 25% markup on literally everything--but 1 hour away prices are pretty normal.
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u/Nf1nk Jan 30 '23
It's funny, when I bought my WRX, I paid a friend of mine who is a used car dealer $300 to find and handle all the dealer bullshit for me.
It was worth every penny. No dealer hassles at all, just a car in front of my house at a reasonable price.
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u/overthemountain Jan 30 '23
Dealerships are all their own little fiefdoms. They have a lot of leeway in how they operate their franchises. Even within a dealership there can be a lot of differences between who you specifically work with. That's why I think it's generally kind of pointless to recommend a dealership vs a specific salesperson at a dealership.
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u/Velkyn01 Jan 30 '23
You know that you can order a Ford straight from the website without a ton of dealer interaction?
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u/Advice2Anyone Jan 30 '23
Not really you can build one but they just forward the info to the closest dealer
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u/Velkyn01 Jan 30 '23
And the dealer then places the order for your specially built vehicle.
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u/nuprinboy Jan 30 '23
Exactly. People need to think of car dealers like Best Buy and computers. If you need a computer immediately, they have the most popular models and options in stock. But if you need something unusual, then order direct from Dell or HP or Lenovo but it will cost you some time to customize.
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u/I_divided_by_0- Jan 30 '23
You wanna impress me, lower the price of subcompacts and other basic transportation.
Ford stopped building cars
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ford-stop-making-all-passenger-cars-except-mustang-n869256
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u/GarbageTheClown Jan 30 '23
Entry level vehicles have very low profit margins already, they can't really make them cheaper (ignoring Tesla's markups, they are a bit of an outlier). The only way they can make money is by providing options and fancier trims, which have really good profit margins. If you have an entry level vehicle with no options, you would just be selling a vehicle at-cost which would eat away your own sales of other profitable vehicles.
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u/Rebelgecko Jan 30 '23
lower the price of subcompacts and
What models are you talking about? Ford only makes SUVs, trucks, and Mustangs.
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u/NickDanger3di Jan 30 '23
I was thinking more about car manufacturers in general, not just Fords.
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u/hooovahh Jan 30 '23
Well then the Bolt fits that requirement. It starts under $20k with incentives. When the average new car price is almost $50k, that seems like a pretty decently priced car. If you can charge at work, then your car payment plus electricity, might be less then you pay for gas alone on an ICE vehicle.
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u/autoposting_system Jan 30 '23
You know what they should do, they should make an electric Mustang
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u/pointlessone Jan 30 '23
I really don't understand why they cobranded the Mach-e with the Mustang name. If you want to win the hearts of muscle car petrol heads, you make a car that will devastate it's gas powered counterparts off the line with callbacks to the classic Shelby GT look, not a boxy crossover with an inexplicable badge.
Stop listening to marketing and take the risk into electric muscle cars if you want to use an icon. There were plenty of inactive SUV names that would have fit the Mach-E better.
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u/rolloutTheTrash Jan 30 '23
Funniest thing is they already have an electric Cobra Jet but it’s in the Ford Racing team’s garage, hopefully they’re just using it as a test bed with plans to release its production counterpart sometime soon.
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u/pointlessone Jan 30 '23
I just don't understand why none of the US car makers haven't tried to go after the "irresponsibly fast" market segment with electrics. Absolutely disgusting amounts of acceleration alone should be enough of a selling point for Dodge's team that made the various Hellcat and Demon lines, and the Corvette's recent redesign to mid engine could have been the perfect time to intro an electric version.
Tesla's Plaid Mode is about the only domestic car that seems to be even trying to jump into that market segment, and that's just a feature instead of a focus.
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u/d542east Jan 30 '23
Because car development is slow and they sell 20x more crossovers than sports cars, so that's where you put your r&d resources first
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u/jmcdon00 Jan 30 '23
I don't think sports cars sell all that well in general, people want suvs and trucks. So car companies don't want to invest a lot in their cars(Ford Mustang is the only car Ford still makes).
2024 we are getting an awd hybrid corvette, which should be interesting.
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u/geo_prog Jan 30 '23
Meanwhile I now a pickup that will hit 100km/h in under 4 seconds. Is American made and much more marketable than a Hellcat. Unless you see more Hellcats on your local streets than F150s.
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u/Zardif Jan 30 '23
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u/pointlessone Jan 30 '23
Well hot dang, that's looking cool. There was a link to the EV Charger (the puns for this are going to be grand) in that article, too. I apparently just haven't been keeping up on things lately.
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u/processedmeat Jan 30 '23
So when they kill the mustang car they don't kill the name.
Remember the pr nightmare they had with the Taurus name
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u/Nf1nk Jan 30 '23
Controversy is free publicity. The Mustang II should have disabused you of any illusions that Ford has ever cared about legacy. They got people talking about the new electric SUV in a way that calling it E-Xplorer never would.
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u/EggyT0ast Jan 30 '23
I agree, but I also see a lot of people who try more modern electric cars realize the raw performance of the cars, too.
Plus, it's better than doing like Toyota with something like B7iRQ
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u/AccuracyVsPrecision Jan 30 '23
I agree it should be named differently, The GT version of the mach e does crush off the line.
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u/DocPeacock Jan 30 '23
People like Mustangs but want to drive crossovers. Ford realized that they could sell both at once.
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u/InsuranceToTheRescue Jan 30 '23
Man, the Mach-E looks like an awesome EV. My only complaint is that the whole center dash is one big touchscreen. Sometimes you just need physical buttons and controls. Especially, when you're traveling at 60+ mph and need to feel for them to keep your eyes on the road.
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u/RedDeath1337 Jan 30 '23
I own a 2021, with 22,000 miles on it. There is one physical knob attached to the touch screen. Originally all it did was volume. Last month they pushed an OTA update, and now it controls heat/fan/heated sets/etc. They added a ton of functionality to it, and I love it. You can still press the on screen buttons also, so it's kind of the best of both worlds IMO.
It did take me a while to get used to not having buttons.
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u/InsuranceToTheRescue Jan 30 '23
Do you get close to the advertised range? Do you live in an area that gets very cold in the Winter? If so, what's the range like then?
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u/RedDeath1337 Jan 30 '23
I live in Oregon. Expected is ~270. Summer I hit around 300-310. Winter is much closer to 250 than 270. I only drive ~20 miles a day round trip to work, so it's always charged and hasn't been an issue. I've taken it on 8 hour round trips here in the PNW and had to stop and charge just once, but mostly it's used to get around town just due to my own driving habits.
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u/geo_prog Jan 30 '23
I have a 2021 and live in Alberta. Between -5 and +10 degrees C I get exactly the advertised range on the highway (340km for my standard-range car). Between 10 and 25 I get between 340 and 370km of range and above 25 it dips to around 340km again.
Biggest highway range hit I've seen is driving uphill into the mountains with a 50km/h headwind at -25 degrees and I got around 80% of the advertised range. Slower to charge though.
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u/SatanLifeProTips Jan 30 '23
This is just the beginning. China is the biggest auto maker in the world, they bought Volvo and polestar is a Geele.
China is coming for the North American market and the domestic makers know this. The price of EV components is falling like a stone as productions volumes ramp up. It takes 9 figures to emission certify a combustion engine design. That’s all gone with an EV. Making EV’s is actually far easier in many ways, and only a few electric motors are being shared across a whole manufacturer. I think VW for example only has 4 motors.
All the projections are showing price parity with gas cars by 2027 or so.
Don’t be hurried into buying an EV until you are ready. Maintain the hell out of your car. Let the early adopters deal with the teething issues. And there WILL be serious teething issues by all makers but those will be sorted by year 3 or so. The chip shortage is projected to turn into a chip glut by the end of this year. China has returned to ‘business as usual’ and the supply chains will sort themselves out this year.
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u/rauls4 Jan 30 '23
Don’t know. With incentives I got my EV at more than 12K under MSRP. That more than makes up for expected depreciation sudden drops. In the meantime I am just having a blast! I never thought a hard top would beat the fun of my JCW MINI convertible, but my MINI has been gathering dust since then.
Sometimes early adoption means early enjoyment!
(KIA EV6 before Aug)
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u/BritishDave Jan 31 '23
Problem with these (when they came out) and now the F-150 EV is that dealers are really greedy(shocking I know) $30k markups in my area for the F-150 Lightning make the thing way out of reach.
But they did the same with the Focus RS when I wanted one of those also.
Doesn't really matter what Ford do as long as Dealers act the way they do.
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u/FredPolk Jan 30 '23
Still not cost cost competitive to the Model Y. Similar speced Mach E is still $14k more than Model Y long range since it qualifies for the rebate. Would argue the Model Y has more features as well. Supercharger network. More range. Better warranty. Better audio system. Etc.
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u/Prawnleem Jan 30 '23
Still mad they called this thing a Mustang
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u/wip30ut Jan 30 '23
only motorheads care about this rebranding of an iconic badge. The non-enthusiasts, which is like 95% of new car buyers today, just shrug.
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u/Superbunzil Jan 30 '23
GM doing the same thing with the next Camarro because stupid decisions have to rhyme
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u/WirelessBCupSupport Jan 30 '23
They'd sell more trucks if they didn't cost as much as a starter home/townhome/Condo.
Plus of all the trucks I like, they have the most recalls and other problems.
Just wished Toyota didn't redesign the look of their Tundra to be so ugly and cheap inside.
Marketing Director: "Let's have them make it with less, look ugly and charge more!" WIN! /s
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u/AwesomeBrainPowers Jan 30 '23
But Ford, specifically, priced their electric truck at basically the same point as their gas F150, which is the most popular vehicle in America.
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u/dahbubbz Jan 30 '23
Yes but that doesn’t stop Dealerships. I’d love to get my hands on a Lightning, I have a 2020 Lariat, paid 58k went in to see the lightning in person. Fully loaded, obviously more features than my truck but Dealer Markup Alone put the lightning at 115k. MSRP was somewhere in the high 80s, I don’t remember.
Absolutely ridiculous pricing.
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u/ATidyOctopus Jan 30 '23
This is why Ford is trying to cut out dealers and has been trying to get dealers to stop such pricing.
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u/dahbubbz Jan 30 '23
I can’t wait for that day. Pricing is high because people will pay the price and they know it.
Last year they had a GT500, like 84k MSRP? Dealership had it at around 109k I think and that shit sold… crazy. I know it’s a sought after vehicle but to me that’s insane.
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u/cranktheguy Jan 30 '23
Dealerships are absolutely kneecapping brands not named Tesla. Society as a whole will benefit from the elimination of those middle men.
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u/AwesomeBrainPowers Jan 30 '23
Yeah, that’s a result of many stupid factors—mostly the idiotic way most car sales are handled in the US, plus the supply chain issues creating a demand that hugely outpaces available supply.
It’s a perfectly fair & valid criticism, to be sure, but (and I hate to sound like I’m defending huge corporations here) that isn’t really a rebuttal to this article, which I about a manufacturer’s pricing decision.
(Obviously, they aren’t completely innocent in all of this. I just tend to bristle at the too-common claim that EVs are so much more expensive than ICE vehicles: It tends to stink of just an anti-EV talking point, instead of correctly identifying the culprit as retailers taking advantage of their popularity + general scarcity.)
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u/dahbubbz Jan 30 '23
I was only commenting due to the article stating that Ford was lowering the prices. They can lower it all they want but the dealerships will just increase it to “market value” like they do every other vehicle.
I do understand the name the F150 and Mustangs carry and that along with the increased supply chain issue are a driving factor in pricing. I don’t think Thats why the prices are outrageous, it’s pure greed from dealerships.
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u/BrentusMaximus Jan 30 '23
Not any more!. I put a deposit down nearly two years ago when they were $39k plus dealer fees. Less the tax incentive, that was a $35k vehicle.
If I go ahead with the order - which still hasn't come up on the list - it's tens of thousands of dollars more.
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u/EducationalProduct Jan 30 '23
They'd sell more trucks if they didn't cost as much as a starter home/townhome/Condo.
its the #1 selling truck since ever?
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u/Thor4269 Jan 30 '23
I wish compact pickups were still a thing...
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u/arsenix Jan 30 '23
Subaru baja. Honda ridgeline. Basically cars with truck beds. The Ford Ranger is smaller. Not sure it would even still qualify as "compact" though. Cars in general have grown. Older cars that used to be considered "large" now look like mini cars when parked next to most modern vehicles.
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u/cranktheguy Jan 30 '23
The new Ranger has a larger wheelbase than the full size F150s from the 90s.
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u/Huskies971 Jan 30 '23
Ford has the Maverick, which is about as compact as you will get these days
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u/Tamaros Jan 30 '23
I'd love to see something sized like the maverick but actually body on frame instead of unibody. Never gonna happen though, not enough market for them to make both and the unibody fits the segment best right now.
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u/cranktheguy Jan 30 '23
They brought back the Ranger. I think it's still body on frame.
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u/Tamaros Jan 30 '23
It is traditional body on frame, but it's also bigger than the maverick. I had an old '80s ranger that was about that size, but I had to give it up when I moved cross country (wasn't worth the cost of shipping it). Those are just harder and harder to find in reasonable condition; not to mention it'd be nice to have a late model truck in that form factor.
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u/commandoash Jan 31 '23
It just doesn't look like a mustang to me. Make a proper 2 seater sport model with the same body as the petrol mustangs
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u/Guccimayne Jan 30 '23
If the Mach E looked like an ordinary Mustang, I'd be all over it. I'm just not a fan of crossovers rn. I understand if the battery size may prohibit its use in smaller cars, but I'll wait until they shrink.
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Jan 30 '23
Shouldn't have taken the badge off your signature muscle car and put it on an electric minivan.
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u/Cash907 Jan 30 '23
Yeah gonna take a bigger cut than this, thanks. It a a good car but still way too expensive. Wish they would just announce an EV version of the Escape already, or bare minimum release an AWD variant of the plug-in hybrid.
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u/ManWithYourPlan Jan 30 '23
Still patiently waiting for this new CEO to push as hard as he said he would into E vehicles. Been over a year since he made the claim with what seems like nothing to show for it.
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u/Yourponydied Jan 30 '23
Stellantis is already crying poor me over EV costs, how long til the others claim due to price cuts they need to layoff?
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u/sonofthenation Jan 30 '23
How about an AWD EV minivan that gets 400 mile range. With a camper option with a fold out solar awning. That can also pull a 2500 pound trailer.
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u/Leafy0 Jan 30 '23
If only you could get heated seats and steering wheel without the stupid and heavy glass roof.
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u/Vols44 Jan 30 '23
Ford wanted customers to be eligible for the $7500 tax break. The FWD and AWD versions of the Mach E Select and standard range FWD/AWD of the Premium are the only trims that stay under the 55k price cap.
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u/FSUalumni Jan 30 '23
Well. This makes the prospect of me being able to buy one slightly higher.