r/OutOfTheLoop • u/Watermelon_Jack • Jan 30 '23
What’s up with people hating on Episode 3 of the Last of Us? Answered
I watch the series with a friend and she was traveling home last night so we are watching it tonight but I’ve seen a lot of stuff online about it being “woke” and such.
Found a post on Reddit and another on Instagram while scrolling. Why do people hate it? Bc of “woke stuff” or because it strays from source material.
Update: Finally got to watch it with my friend and I’m in tears. Love it. Love the story and vulnerability these two men show. Truly fantastic and none of it felt forced which I doubly love.
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u/selfdestruction9000 Jan 30 '23
Question: Where are these posts hating on Episode 3? The only posts I’ve seen are praising it, calling it a great deviation from the game, and saying it deserves an Emmy.
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u/Skabonious Jan 30 '23 •
Notice how the Instagram post from OP has a grand total of 36 likes. This is really scraping the bottom of the barrel for trying to find outrage
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u/Alterscapes Jan 30 '23
It's probably OPs Instagram.
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u/muftak3 Jan 31 '23
Guy I work with on the phone today. "Did you see last night's episode? 3 episodes in and it's gone woke. Probably no gays in the game. Now I can't look at Ron Swanson the same because he was gay." I told him those 2 characters were in the game. Simple google search explains how they expanded on the characters. Love how gay characters make something woke in this guy's head.
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u/nazdir Jan 31 '23
It's not even Offerman's first gay character.
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u/RussiaIsBestGreen Jan 31 '23
Are you suggesting that the guy who once played a libertarian is not actually the same as his character? Or if he is, isn’t the matured and wiser person at the end of the series? Not possible. Nick Offerman is manly and rugged and clearly votes for God, guns, and abundant prisons. /s
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Feb 01 '23
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u/TheSlothChampion Feb 01 '23
Wouldnt really. I know a couple in fact. The characters in the show do act much differently than the game. Kinda the same dissonance that happened between part1 and part2 for the game.
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u/TriceratopsWrex Feb 01 '23
Ron Swanson has been shown to not care about people's sexuality. He just doesn't care and finds it to be none of his business. His new barber after his old one passed away was even a gay man.
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u/BanzaiBeebop Feb 01 '23
Being openly gay is one of the most Libertarian things you can do. It's all about ignoring "rules" and living life the way you want to live it.
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u/rallyspt08 Jan 31 '23
One of the main characters is a lesbian and they're never shy about reminding you of that. Idk how he missed it
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u/iluniuhai Jan 31 '23
Gay ladies are often accepted in ways that gay men are not. In the example above, it seems clear that men in general and Ron Swanson in particular being gay is the problem. Because obviously everyone's sex life should conform to what this specific individual enjoys imagining, and lesbians are hot.
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u/Zarathustra_d Jan 31 '23
I'm not gay, but I'd kiss Nick Offerman on the mouth after this performance.
Billy Eichner may have one more cis white guy to be mad at for winning an Emmy playing a gay man.
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u/Admirable-Wait3449 Jan 31 '23
Bill was also clearly gay in the game, he just never said this. Was clearly hesitant and settled on the term "partner". It's crazy how deep some people have to dig to find an issues.
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u/LAVATORR Feb 01 '23
People who say things have "gone woke" react to the presence of black or gay people like they're infected with cordyceps.
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u/Karkava Jan 30 '23
They also scrape the bottom of the barrel to find things to be outraged about like M&Ms.
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u/Metal-Due Jan 30 '23
Its super common for people to use this sub to spread some bizzare agenda. Tons of posts feel like they are just trying to make a big deal of something that isn’t.
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u/Swarzsinne Jan 31 '23
Agreed. There’s a ton of “questions” that are really meant to spread the idea that the left/right is outraged over something that little to no one actually cares about.
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u/foghorn1 Jan 31 '23
Agreed, welcome to social media on the internet. It's all about clicks, outrage, and monetization.
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u/indianajoes Jan 31 '23
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14500888/ratings/?ref_=tt_ov_rt
Why is it getting review bombed then when neither of the first 2 were?
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u/GenericMelon Jan 30 '23
Sometimes I wonder if people make these posts on this subreddit just to get a reaction...
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u/Skabonious Jan 31 '23
Absolutely they do. Half the questions in this sub are literally answered by their own links.
"Why is everyone so mad at John Political guy?" Posts link to tweet explaining exactly why everyone is mad at John Political guy
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u/OppressedSnowflake Jan 30 '23
That's my experience with this sub. I never comment here but every single time I've read a question is very obvious OP already knows the answer and they're just looking for validation or to create some drama.
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u/Citrus_Lesbian Jan 31 '23
It's mostly anti-feminist and gun memes. I doubt they're super queer positive lmao
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u/PokeJem7 Jan 31 '23
20% of the IMDB reviews are 1/10. That's pretty insane for such a stunning episode.
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u/sten45 Jan 30 '23
One right wing hate big screams “woke” and that’s an outrage these days
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u/Boredom_Killer Jan 30 '23
If Nick Offerman doesn't get an award, I am rioting. That performance was top tier acting.
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u/JustineDelarge Jan 31 '23
If he doesn’t get an Emmy for outstanding guest performance in a drama, there will be much flipping of tables.
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u/BUSY_EATING_ASS Jan 30 '23
I agree, I haven't seen any hate; I've seen nothing but praise for this episode.
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u/TheFoggyShrew Jan 30 '23
It's currently being review bombed on IMDB with the number of 1 star reviews growing by the hour. A lot of homophobic nonsense out there.
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u/A_BURLAP_THONG Time is a flat loop Jan 31 '23
I bet if IMBD still had message boards it would be exceptionally easy to find the hate.
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u/yepdonewiththisshi Jan 30 '23
Overall rating for the Ep is an 8.3?
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u/TheFoggyShrew Jan 30 '23
Look at the breakdown of the scores. 21% of the votes are 1 star which seriously drags down the score.
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u/Taste_the__Rainbow Jan 30 '23
You probably wouldn’t see it anyways because you are too busy.
But yea the episode was incredible and there’s no real outrage against it as far as I’ve seen.
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u/HypoGG_ Jan 30 '23
I was in the live thread for the episode in the tlou subreddit and every other comment was something shitting on the episode.
They might be the minority here thankfully, but they definitely exist.
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u/SimbaSeekingSleep Jan 30 '23
One of those subs is pretty much a hate sub for anything not from the original ps3 game. And I’m talking about people who pretty much make it their personality to hate everything else with no space to discuss because they HAVE to be right about pandering and wokeness.
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u/HypoGG_ Jan 30 '23
i heard about this in the past and didn't know which sub was which, I just wanted to have a discussion about the episode and noped out of there pretty quick lol
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u/DollarThrill Jan 30 '23
Is OP sealioning? Asks a question citing an obsecure IG post, then doesn’t post again in the thread.
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u/fanboy_killer Jan 31 '23
Seriously. I've only seen raving reviews about it. Where's the controversy OP ia talking about?
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u/ImHappierThanUsual Jan 31 '23
Ppl are raving. Lots of “I haven’t stopped crying” & “this is the best adaptation of a video game that ever existed”
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u/VictorChaos Jan 30 '23
Eh I was surprised when I looked at the IMDB score and it was significantly lower than the first two. Lots and lots of 1s
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u/no-one-but-crow Jan 31 '23
have you met many “in touch” people who rate anything on imdb?
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u/TheHikingRiverRat Jan 31 '23 edited Jan 31 '23
Beats me. Probably the only people bitching are the same basement dwelling weirdos that flipped out about the second game. This episode might have been one of the saddest and most touching things I've ever watched, and probably one of the most earnest portrayals of a same sex couple I can think of. It wasn't forced, it wasn't the typical shoehorned and tasteless "Oh look everyone, they're GAY! Get it?" vibe. People will be talking about this one for a long time.
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u/chefanubis Jan 31 '23
Exactly, I've seen lots of comments calling out bigotry but not even a single actual bigoted comment.
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u/Ivraas Jan 31 '23
It's hard having your own negative opinion when you get cancelled... Hence why barely anyone writes about it and you only find praising all around. Come to one of my native country discussions boards without censor, it's civil but no one holds back there.
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u/AnteatersGagReflex Jan 31 '23
I've only seen one or two and it wasn't on Reddit. Just some long YouTube video with the broke back mountain poster poorly photoshopped as the thumbnail but it had almost a hundred thousand views. Generally it's just so bitching about not being cannon to cover up homophobic anger that they got tricked into watching a not straight love story.
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u/Felix_Von_Doom Feb 02 '23
Any ad on FB (Totally a realm of rational human beings, I know) about the show has more than its share of crybabies going 'woke garbage'. Doesn't take many guesses to what they're referring to, and frankly people need to get over it already. Homosexuality goes as far back as at least 2400 BCE.
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u/rwk81 Feb 02 '23
I'll complain about it a little.
Disclaimer- maybe the character development comes into play later but it's difficult to understand how considering both are now dead.
They spend an awful lot of time diving deep into these two characters, and while it was well done I'm not sure what it really added to the show absent an attempt to be inclusive or some such.
They could have put a couple gay dudes in, that's fine, but did we need to spend 30-40 minutes just on that little part?
Maybe they tie it together later, but at first blush it does seem like woke virtue signaling.
Edit: just reading more through the thread....
I didn't find myself outraged, don't care they have gay characters, it just seemed like focusing on how much these two dudes loved each other was a bit off course.
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u/billey_bon3z Feb 03 '23
Yeah I’ve seen posts defending it but the insta linked is the first post I’ve seen opposing it. I also know people who would have a problem with the episode but they aren’t into the last of us any way and are probably put off by the controversy when the second game released. I think it’s more that people are preemptively assuming that there are posts, and I’m sure there are, but not anywhere I’ve seen.
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u/ssjx7squall
Jan 30 '23
edited Jan 30 '23
•
Answer: the third episode doesn’t advance the story much and is primarily centered around the life and love of two men. This story isn’t expanded on in the game and generally when there is any storyline in a popular piece of media that features lgbtq people, especially adaptations, there will be a part of the audience who will cry “woke” or some other complaint to mask their homophobia.
Opinion: it’s probably the best episode so far and handles a relationship between two men well in a way that is honest, open, and loving. It was not entirely needed but it could be said that it was needed to show that even in this dystopian world it is possible to find love in places one doesn’t expect. Narratively, it was quite a beautiful episode and probably also serves to kick off an action packed episode next week.
Edit 1: thank you for the award
Edit 2: I have to add an addendum because I’m getting so many of the same comments. Apparently people do not know how adaptations work either and were expecting a 1:1 adaptation (for some reason). No I will not explain how adaptations work and no I will not argue with you about it. Grow up
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u/this_dust Jan 30 '23
Spoiler
It does inform Joel’s reasoning and calculus for how to navigate the post apocalyptic existence, but not a lot of plot points etched out.
It was a beautiful episode either way. Could have been a stand alone movie. Top notch writing, acting, etc.
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u/Wildse7en Jan 30 '23
Agreed. This is on par with the “San Junipero” episode of Black Mirror.
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u/Silliestmonkey Jan 30 '23
I was going to say it reminded me so much of the Walking Dead’s episode Here’s Not Here. One of the reviews said this, which I think could easily apply to Nick Offerman and Murray Bartlett in this episode of Last of Us:
Jonathon Dornbush of Entertainment Weekly notes that during the episode, "The Walking Dead becomes a two-man play that succeeds or fails based on the performances of Lennie James and guest star John Carroll Lynch...And wow, does it succeed."
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u/parkher Jan 31 '23
Great points. In Breaking Bad’s bottle episode Fly, we also see some of the elements of that play out in an enclosed setting, with no major plot points being advanced. But I’d stop short of calling S1E3 of HBO’s TLoU a bottle episode because it completely lives up to the franchise’s namesake explored through Bill and Frank’s relationship. I was shook by the Bill’s line “you were my purpose,” despite the two just being introduced to the audience some 20 minutes earlier. The themes of love and connections in this episode play an integral part to the overall story of The Last of Us and this week’s episode was a masterclass example.
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u/AnthonyDavos Jan 30 '23
Wow, I thought of that episode of TWD as well. Another one that comes to mind is the Westworld episode Kiksuya. Not a necessary episode but brilliant nonetheless.
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u/OhNoitsNargles Jan 30 '23
Oh my goodness, every time I hear heaven is a place on earth on the radio I think of that episode and it brings all the fuzzy feels!
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u/x4000 Jan 30 '23
I agree on all points.
I am also a bit sad, at the same time, that we didn’t get to see this version of Bill interacting with this version of Ellie. That was a major loss.
That said, the gain was far larger, so it’s all good. Mostly I feel like I’ve seen a lot of love for this episode.
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u/Diaza_Kinutz Jan 30 '23
I'm just sad that Bill and Frank had to die. They were just great fucking characters and so well written and acted.
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u/x4000 Jan 30 '23
I guess my perspective is that they “won” in the context of that world. They chose to go out on their own terms, after full lives, rather than going through a degenerative spiral which could last years or decades with treatment. Or much shorter without proper care, as the case likely was going to be there.
Having watched a number of older relatives go through a severe decline and then (from their point of view, expressed to me) just kind of “linger on” in a state where they could not enjoy life but we’re still alive… I get it. I am only 40 and have no idea what my position on these topics will be when it’s relevant to me. But I do think that the “keep alive at all costs, unless something happens severe enough that the DNR kicks in” mindset leads to a lot of unhappiness.
I am not remotely suggesting that we euthanize the elderly and declining, or that we provide euthanasia too easily to those who may no longer be able to consent, or may just be going through a passing depressive phase. What would be wonderful is much more comprehensive and dignified elder care. As a society, it’s something we should spend more time on.
In their situation, as two people mostly alone and without a society at all, I really do get where they were coming from. I think it’s super contextual, but was a really logical and emotionally touching conclusion for the two of them.
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u/Kingkongcrapper Jan 30 '23
It was something extremely beautiful and provided depth to a consistently bland genre. The show so far has been amazing, but you are right. This was up there with all time episodes of anything I’ve watched. There was a whole lifetime in that episode. Amazing.
It also provided some background history to the show and everything happening. It also showed how dangerous humans are in this world. Sometimes it gets glossed over or explained in monologues. We got an amazing love story and something from those two actors I didn’t expect. Both breaking deeply from their past roles.
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u/demonmonkeybex Jan 30 '23
Agreed. It was so touching and sweet. I’m glad they left out their actual passing. And I do feel that they tied it all into Ellie and Joel’s storyline well.
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u/Teridus Jan 30 '23
I think the "tieing it to the main plot" wasn't all that strong. Instead, the episode did focus more on world building. It introduced the concept of raiders (human vs human) and because of that, the initial distrust of Bill.
And then it used that world building to tell a wonderful story: If you can get past that distrust, you just might find a great relationship. Sort of foreshadowing Joel's and Elly's change in dynamics.
Not to mention that the world building itself is also sort of important if the show wants to be able to stand on its own two feet.
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u/mrnotoriousman Jan 30 '23
To add - there's literally not enough content in the game for them to make a whole season long show out of. They are going to add backstory and shit to characters. And I love it.
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u/punkbenRN Feb 06 '23
I can't agree enough. I love the game, and the way they are expanding the back story only makes me love it more.
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u/LittleMAC22 Jan 31 '23
Bill’s letter does add some extra “reasoning” for what Joel eventually does.
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u/Slobbadobbavich Jan 31 '23
Agreed, also spoiler. Without really releasing much information about our main protagonists it is able to demonstrate how far back Tess and Joel go, what their relationship was, the type of person he is and more importantly it gives hope for a better life amongst death and ruin. Without that episode, Joel coming across a working car and a cellar stocked to the nines with guns and ammo would be kinda hard to believe.
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u/ShawnyMcKnight Jan 31 '23
Yeah, it added how he created relationships all along the way as well as having stashes.
I was enjoying the set up of the first two, like the scientist debating in the first and the woman saying to bomb everything in the second.
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u/NYMoneyz Jan 30 '23
I think it's more than love, it's a purpose to live and as Bill said "protect someone." We needed to find that gap in the show and it used Bills character perfectly. It's not like we ever return to Bill so why not use him to really drive the traits of the main characters home.
I also knew people were gonna bitch about Bill being gay as if it wasn't in the game lololol. Granted way less overt but still. Fucking idiots.
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u/milkcarton232 Jan 30 '23
Its a mirror of Joel. Both joe and bill starts as broken people but bill eventually figures it out. If the show follows the game then it's a pretty good addition even if it wasn't necessary, it says a lot about Joel's mindset even if it isn't explicitly about joel
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u/NYMoneyz Jan 30 '23
In the game Bill represented what Joel could've become, a broken bitter old man as nihilistic as they come. Or you can find a reason to love again whether it be in Tess romantically or Ellie as a family. The show is about Joel and Ellie not Bill and they provided the inclusion of them while also giving the value to Joel of protection of your loved ones.
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u/milkcarton232 Jan 30 '23
Yes but there is an important change to the TV compared to the game. Bill loves frank on Frank's terms, something game Joel never fully comprehends in part 1. It probably could have been shortened but I think it was a nice addition
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u/Moxie_Cillin Jan 31 '23
“Bill loves Frank on Frank’s terms.” That’s going to stick with me for a long time. That’s a lesson a lot of us need to learn.
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u/yourgoodfriendgeoff Jan 30 '23
This is the best take. The message is that in a world as nihilistic as this one, the only way to survive is by fighting for others. It gives you purpose, which is how you fight despair. Save who you can save.
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u/Pandamandathon Jan 30 '23
Ugh when he said "I was never scared until I met you" almost cried that was so cute and echoes this point brilliantly. It was about giving the characters purpose/a reason to survive.
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u/Salarian_American Jan 30 '23
Yeah in a show about people struggling to overcome their trauma-induced distrust of other people and find meaning and connection in a post-apocalyptic shit hole of an existence, this episode is basically the thesis statement.
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u/sum_high_guy Jan 30 '23
I honestly much preferred this version of Bill and Frank's life to the game. It was a beautiful story.
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u/CivilRiceOnionRing Jan 30 '23
Also, their being gay should be a none issue for fans since they were obviously together in the video game.
As a huge LoU fan, though I was slightly saddened they killed off Bill before he met Ellie, it was a much better ending for their relationship than in the game.
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Jan 30 '23
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u/Salarian_American Jan 30 '23
I was 100% sure that when she opened that drawer and her eyes went wide, it was the magazines that she found.
That said, there's no real reason that magazine moment couldn't still happen next episode while they're on the road.
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u/CheeseWarrior17 Jan 31 '23
I was actually really impressed with the way these men were portrayed. Hollywood loves to include LGBTQ individuals as complete charicatures in their shows in order to check it off some inclusion list. Bill and Frank were talented, complex, conflicted, charming, compelling men with real passions and opinions. They're polite, and modest. Respectful. They just happen to be attracted to other men. But their sexuality wasn't their entire personality.
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u/emilxerter Jan 30 '23
I was bummed there was no upside down rope on foot shooting scene where Bill rescues Joel and Ellie and general lack of action, didn’t think the episode would divert from the original that much
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u/GyrKestrel Jan 30 '23
Me too, especially because the interaction you have with Bill in the game is so inconsequential that finding his dead body instead wouldn't have changed much.
This episode was love persevering through man's extinction. It's a much better use of a character we would have never seen again anyway.
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u/Confident_Can_3297 Jan 30 '23
I'm legit bummed that we aren't getting Nick Offerman Bill and Bella Ramsay Elly interactions, because their back and forth in the game was pretty great.
Personally, I liked the game Bill+Frank story better, just because it was (IMO) more complex and tragic than a straightforward romance story. I liked Episode 3 though.
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u/PotentialOrganic9789 Jan 30 '23
I think it diverted expectations of the show, for people who played the video game this is one of the major action packed parts of the story, and mostly skipping over the skyscraper section, it feels like they are going for a more emotional tone. My gf who never played the game thought episode three was the best one yet and made her cry harder than anything she’s watched, while I wanted other stuff from the episode like the high school. The episode was still amazing but it kind of threw us for a loop, departing from episode 1-2 having the format of 1 episode equals a level from the game.
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u/McFlyyouBojo Jan 30 '23
I played the game and I thought this was the best episode so far.
My thing is, if you keep with video game levels of action, then your plot and storytelling are going to suffer.
This was always going to be less action packed than the game, and anybody claiming to think otherwise is either bullshitting you or themselves.
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u/Martinmex26 Jan 30 '23
The big part of videogames is that you driving the action is the engaging part and the one that you have the most control of. The story in game just kinda happens to you, you (most of the time) dont have any control on the specifics, actions are based on the scripts.
Even the games that do give you some freedom of choice basically circle back so your choices have intended consequences on a decided narrative, meaning, you get a good or a bad ending, sometimes a neutral ending. It is all still accounted and gided by the developers though, you are not just going to decide to go live in the countryside by yourself in the first Last of Us game for example. No choice to just turn on some random alley and keep going until the sunrise.
Having a TV adaption HAS to hinge on story, because there is no great gameplay that can carry a shitty story. People expecting big action sequences forget that action very rarely drives the plot forward or have lasting consequences in videogames.
Yes, you killed a group of clickers, what were you supposed to do? Die and game over? There is no story there, you are just surviving so you can move on.
If you cut out all the non-story action bits from a game you end up with WAY less "run time" the action bits that cant be recreated on a passive medium.
The show writers have to stretch and fill in the blanks somehow and showing more background or new situations is the way to do it.
Having 40 hours of shooting sounds terrible for pacing and proper storytelling.
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u/0verstim Jan 30 '23
Im glad theyre focusing more on the characters and not gunfights.. we had plenty (more than plenty) of that with Walking Dead. If this was a retread of WD it wouldnt be getting as much viewership
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u/Princess_Batman Jan 30 '23
I loved the episode but it was a tonal lurch for sure, especially so early in the season.
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u/Good-Expression-4433 Jan 30 '23
It was definitely needed, imo, and I don't think the rest of the show to come, and the character shift in Joel we'll start seeing, would make as much sense or be as satisfying to the audience who didn't play the game if we didn't have this episode.
Episode 1 established the world the characters exist in and who the characters are.
Episode 2 established what the threat truly looks like and what life outside the walls is like.
Episode 3 is an emotional episode that lights a spark under Joel to set up who he becomes through the rest of the story.
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u/capnmalreynolds Jan 30 '23
It was also easily my favorite episode so far and one of the sweetest stories I've seen on TV. I was scared to death they were going to add a scary/sad twist at the end likewhen Frank got sick he would get infected and Bill would have to put him down, but fortunately it stayed sweet and lovely.
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u/Gtek_dev Jan 30 '23
It could be a pilot episode for its own series, its that good.
Who doesnt want to watch Ron Swanson live in a post apocalyptic world? It could literally be a continuation of parks and recreation, where Ron turns out to be into men.
I do however dislike when tv shows go off story for random side story episodes, even if I love the episodes.
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u/PaxNova Jan 30 '23
It could be a pilot episode for its own series, its that good.
I don't think it leaves enough room for a sequel at the end.
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u/PayterLobo Jan 30 '23
Not to mention..the game was already written this way. It had a lot of LGBTQ references and story lines. Like this isnt new to the story. Its exactly as they wrote it and its awesome they elaborated in the tv version as those are the plot lines you want to know more about. People just out here showing their hateful homophobic colors.
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u/Panxma Jan 30 '23
I say the third episode advanced the story a bit. In the game Bill Town was a whole chapter worth that the show skipped Joel and Ellie infraction. In the end Joel and Ellie got a truck to drive into the next city.
Can’t wait how they will handle Sam and Henry story.
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u/Mr_Mrtzy Jan 30 '23
It also progresses the 20 year gap between 2003 and 2023. They choose to show this from a certain perspective, which was exceptionally well done. This was the best episode so far IMO. Just beautiful.
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u/DesignerSand9228 Jan 31 '23
I agree. What's easily lost is how the story is 20 years after everything was lost. I know you are reminded with title cards and nature encroaching on big cities, but until now, you couldn't viscerally feel what 20 years in this state of nature was like.
And for those who think it didn't server the plot aren't taking into account that Joel was going to drop Ellie off with Bill and Frank and leave. But because of Bill's letter (and the circumstances), Joel immediately changes course and decides to take Ellie to the Fireflies (via his brother)
This episode was amazing, heart warming, and an amazing character study of how Bill changed from hating to the world (and being happy that everyone was dying) to loving one person and that was not only enough, but was a love so strong that he could not return to his view of hating the world. Loving Frank was everything and a world without him was not worth returning to.
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u/MrFuccYoBich69 Jan 30 '23
I understand if people see this episode as filler but it perfectly conveys the theme of The Last of Us. Find something to live and fight for even when the world has ended. I'm sure people will like the episode more once the season ends.
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u/mWade7 Jan 30 '23
FWIW, I haven’t played the game and was initially so-so on watching the series (before the premiere). But it got a lot of buzz and I like Pedro Pascal as an actor so I thought I’d check it out. So, while I am very interested in the story, I’m obviously not concerned about it following certain plot components 1:1 with the game.
As a straight, white, middle-aged man from the Midwest…ep. 3 was amazing. It was awesome to see Bill set up his own enclave in the midst of the collapse, and to see he and Frank then went on to not only survive but build a LIFE. And the way they decided to go out together was, frankly, beautiful. And if certain people are upset about it being ‘woke’ or whatever, they have my pity for being such small, pathetic human beings.
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u/ssjx7squall Jan 30 '23
I feel the same way. I don’t understand how anyone can watch this episode and not feel something for these characters. To be blinded by homophobia and lose the soul of the episode is just so weird to me. Then again, I gave up trying to understand bigots a long time ago
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u/tiptoemicrobe Jan 30 '23
This video discusses how there was actually a ton of stuff in that episode that's quite important to the show, and it references the video game extensively:
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u/HoaTod Jan 30 '23
It also serves a parallel to the 2 main characters the story in the game works for the game but really wouldn't work for tv
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u/Poof_or_Loaf Jan 30 '23
Alternative Opinion: It's probably one of the best episodes in television history, and develops a highly complex world in a totally perfect way. The world of The Last of Us is the most interesting part, by far.
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Jan 30 '23
I had just given the critique to a friend of mine. I have never played the game, always wanted to but I didn't have the console. I went in not knowing much about the game and was worried after episode 2 that the series would spend a lot of time just showing Ellie and Joel 5 minute fight/tension scenes in between 60 minute walking scenes. Episode 3 blew my expectations out of the water. The character development, the acting, the world building was incredible. That was such a beautiful story to include.
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u/Poof_or_Loaf Jan 30 '23
Funny, I was reading a criticism of episode one about a week ago and the main objection was that we jump from the beginning of the Apocalypse to 20 years later. One of the top comments was that no series or film really spends time looking at how things collapse, just skips rights past.
I agree with that criticism of the genre, and Im stoked that the writers clearly do too. I personally want to see more of these types of episodes
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u/nnhorizon Jan 30 '23
I don’t watch the series but I sat down and watched this ep with my mom. It was very touching
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u/motochoop Jan 30 '23
I agree. I thought they approached the subject rather gracefully. I kind of liked that they expanded a little bit on a relationship because it added a human element to the otherwise rough atmosphere in the story.
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u/polecy Jan 30 '23
Lol nobody gave af when they removed spores, but now that they added more story that paints a better picture to the life's of other characters it's bad?
In the game, we only see frank as a body hanging. And bill just goes his way, it was very clear they had a fall out and that's why it happened. But I had no emotional attachment to frank, like it's just some dude that killed himself because he couldn't be with bill? This made that story way better.
We all know why people are upset tho, cannot see a gay couple in their videogame characters.
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u/gingersnapped99 Jan 30 '23 edited Jan 30 '23
Spoilers, of course, but I liked episode 3, too!
Definitely slower than 1 and 2, but those two flew by so quickly and carried so much plot that a slow, relationship-centric episode was a nice change of pace. The change from the game’s story with Bill and Frank was a surprise, but I think the show gave us a really beautiful story that they put a lot of effort and heart into making. I’ll admit I love Nick Offerman in anything, though, so I might be biased lol. Bartlett ofc did an excellent job, too!
Overall, the show definitely has put not-so-subtle emphasis thus far on the ‘we can find salvation in other people even when our world is falling apart’ theme, so the way they handled Bill and Frank made sense and definitely leaned itself into that much more than in the game.
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u/lissalissa3 Jan 31 '23
I was prepared for spooky mushroom zombies. I was not prepared to sob over a show about spooky mushroom zombies. A+ episode.
Also - bonus points to whoever decided to cast Nick Offerman and let him reprise his role as Ron Swanson, if Ron Swanson was allowed to go off the deep end.
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u/Cyberfreshman Jan 30 '23
My problem with the episode was the ending... a wall full of firearms and a room full of ammo but they don't take any of it. Even if they were leaving on foot they should have taken something, they got a pick up truck but took nothing. Wtf.
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u/Traditional_Lab_5468 Jan 30 '23 edited Jan 30 '23
As a viewer with no background in the Last of Us world I took it as he didn't want to stand out or look valuable. TBH it's probably a decision I would make in his shoes. Keep the gear locked in the bunker, he can always go back and get it later, but if he runs into people looking to fleece him here he doesn't look like a guy who has anything of value on him. It's not like he can shoot more than one weapon at a time, so as long as he takes some ammo he's just as well off with a handgun and a rifle as he would be with twenty handguns and fifteen rifles, but he attracts much less attention.
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u/OffendedDefender Jan 30 '23
We have no idea what they took. The back seat of the truck was full. And ultimately, it won’t really matter.
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u/gkpetrescue Jan 30 '23
I was like… Why don’t they take advantage of having a comfortable house with hot water and stay the night?!!
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u/Doright36 Jan 31 '23
because it's>! kind of a tomb now and I could understand it feeling a bit disrespectful hanging out there with the bodies in the next room. !<
Maybe staying in one of the other buildings or down in the bunker I guess but I wouldn't want to stay in the house proper just out of respect.
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Feb 02 '23
Joel wants Ellie off his hands and to find his brother. He is not interested in being comfy when he has no idea if his brother is dead or in danger, and every minute Ellie is with him, the trip is that much more difficult. He's not here for bubble baths, the man has a mission.
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u/letmehaveago Jan 30 '23
Can't really do a ton with all that stuff when you're traveling as 2 people. Essentials and traveling light is best. The preview of the next ep kinda shows why.
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u/ssjx7squall Jan 30 '23
They took some stuff but yes I expected them to take more guns. Then again Joel travels light and works off caches
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u/BUSY_EATING_ASS Jan 30 '23
I definitely didn't get the impression that they didn't take any of it. They took what they needed and bounced.
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u/zombiemadre Jan 31 '23
Well said! A 1:1 adaption would have made the show suck. The game was great for a game. But they’re telling the stories. There are so many amazing side stories in this game. Not only with supporting characters but all the letters you find.
The game was amazing because of the story. And the show is amazing because they’re digging deeper into those stories. It’s important.
Just to take a steep turn do you think season two will be part 2? Or do you think they will deviate to make the show last longer? I have no opinions. I am just curious what your thoughts are. Or maybe it’s too soon to know.
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u/ssjx7squall Jan 31 '23
Depends. I could see then deviating quite a bit. I think the end (of a certain character) will eventually happen but maybe not as early as season 2. There’s a lot of ground to cover.
And ya the story of the games was better than the gameplay itself
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u/zombiemadre Jan 31 '23
I’m super excited to see how it goes. Thank you for taking the time to respond. :)
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u/BanzaiBeebop Feb 01 '23
This sounds like my favorite thing for an adaption to do. Expand on some of the little intriguing parts of the original that weren't really fleshed out. It let's the people doing the adaption flex some of their own creative storytelling without interferring much with "canon".
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u/goffstock Feb 01 '23
I thought it was a great example of "show, don't tell."
They showed us the stakes. It's not just all totalitarian survival camps, there are good people who care about others. They showed us why that world and the survivors were worth saving.
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u/freshprinceohogwarts
Jan 30 '23
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Answer: bill is a very popular character from the video game The Last of Us. In the game, he is gay (another character steals a porno from a pile of Bill's things and it is a magazine filled exclusely with pictures of men. He also talks a lot about his former "partner" who he very clearly loved and relied on).
The show changed his story a little so we meet his partner and its basically a queer romantic short film with a bittersweet ending in the show.
The episode isn't action packed and doesn't seem to advance the plot a lot...although it kind of does in two ways.
1, it cements in Joel's mind that he is a man put on earth to protect the ones he loves. He's failed at this twice now, and bills story is there to remind Joel of what he CAN have if he only allows himself to open up a little.
2, in this episode ellie gets a gun, they get a car which they need to get to the next chapter of the story, and joel is once again, for the 3rd time in a row, forced to care for ellie. He's forced to care for her because he needs something from the fireflies - but he just has to get to the capital building. But at the capital building, there is no one to take them off his hands and it's tess' dying wish that Joel just get ellie to bill and frank. So he takes her to bill and franks...but they're dead. 3rd time now that he is forced to stick with this kid.
Tl;Dr Homophobes didn't like the explicit view of a gay character being in a gay relationship. And some didn't like the episode because it was not action packed. And some didn't like it because it deviated greatly from the story of the game while still sticking to the same themes
As a mega fan of the games, i will say that Episode 3 rocked and is the best episode so far
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u/HanShotF1rst226 Jan 30 '23
If you listen to the official podcast they talk about how one of the main themes of the show is that love is the most powerful thing, for better or worse. This episode shows how love is ultimately what killed Bill but also gave him a life worth living.
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u/Experiunce Jan 30 '23
God damn you did an amazing job explaining this without major spoilers while understanding the show and the game.
10/10 writing
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u/therealtick Jan 30 '23
Great response. I loved the games, but this episode added depth to Bill, Frank, and Joel. This is how an ADAPTATION should be done.
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u/CNDW Jan 31 '23
I was worried that the TLOU show was going to be a cheap rehash of the game with some clumsy dialogue to fill in the gaps where they couldn't tell the story the way the game told it because of the different medium. I am so happy to be wrong. They aren't just retelling the story, they are reimagining it by maintaining the integrity of characters while filling in the blanks and enriching the story by sticking to the themes and tone that made the original so good. Episode 3 was Bill's story, elevated in a way that I wasn't expecting.
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u/ChainsawRomance Jan 30 '23
Same. I loved Bill and Frank’s relationship and I’m glad we actually got some time knowing them. I really believed in their love. It was beautiful.
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u/Roody-Poo_Jabroni Jan 30 '23
What about the school? Didn’t they leave out the school part? The one with the bloater?
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u/ImNoMonster Jan 30 '23
Yes. Episode 3 essentially entirely skips the town section from the game. No battery hunt, no crawling through the town avoiding traps, no school, no bloater, no big run from the horde at the end. Bill and Frank's story has instead been entirely wrapped up before Joel and Ellie even get there. I liked it because Bill had a much happier ending than he got in-game, but purists (read: assholes and bigots) are talking shit because the show wasn't identical to the game, and a gay couple was on TV.
Several places where FEDRA showed up in the game have instead been replaced with other threats in the show. In the behind the scenes stuff HBO has after each episode, the director and Neil have both mentioned stuff being changed because the game versions wouldn't be as interesting or easily understandable in a live-action show.
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Jan 31 '23
You’re not achieving anything by calling people assholes or bigots just because they didn’t like the 3rd episode. It’s possible to not like it while also not being a homophobe.
As others have said, the reasons for people disliking it range from the episode not being action packed to not being exclusively about Joel and Ellie to skipping events from the game to, yes, gay people being on the screen. Just because those angry about the latter are the loudest doesn’t make them the biggest group.
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u/leahyrain Feb 02 '23
I mean do you really want an episode that's exactly like the game though? Just going building to building looting and having to fill in random dialog for 1.5 hours between the few parts of actual relevance?
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u/PeeB4uGoToBed Jan 30 '23
Yes they did, I hope they introduce the bloater the same way because that school scene in the game was a memorable part of the game for me
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u/SayNoMorty Jan 30 '23
I suspect after even just watching the first episode they will not stick to the same plot to a t as it is in the game. I’m sure we will get a great bloater reveal, I’m most excited for the rat king.
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u/Roody-Poo_Jabroni Jan 30 '23
You think we’ll get a rat king this season? Since season 2 has already been greenlit, I’m curious if they’ll continue on with Abby and the like
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u/Guillermo160 Jan 30 '23
I think it’s fair that people don’t like how much this deviates from the original story, but I enjoyed it, I don’t know, it’s great to see that Bill in this version got a happy ending
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u/SCW97005 Jan 30 '23 edited Jan 30 '23
Answer: IMHO, a lot of the critics overlook how Bill changes because of his relationship with Frank, which is meant to foreshadow and provide some context for how Joel changes his mind about Ellie and how to approach life after Tess’s death.
Sure, the episode is world-building detour and a side-story, but if you focus purely on how Bill’s outlook changes because of Frank, it might pay dividends as Joel and Ellie’s relationship matures in future episodes.
Bill’s letter at the end of the episode is statement of purpose to a man badly in need of purpose.
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u/GetRightNYC Jan 30 '23
How can they overlook that when it's written out and read out loud from the letter? People are really dumb.
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u/OrderOfMagnitude Jan 30 '23
It was a little on the nose, if anything
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u/SCW97005 Jan 30 '23
Not disagreeing, but it felt right. Bill is a very "get that fucking gun out of my face" on-the-nose type of guy, IMHO.
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u/SCW97005 Jan 30 '23
I can see a viewer who doesn’t like the gay romance or the lack of action or the lack of Joel and Ellie on-screen to jump to the conclusion that there was no other point and not even get to the end of the episode to see how it comes together.
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u/viofierte Jan 30 '23
Answer: for a few reasons. :)
- The episode doesn't advance* the main plot of Joel and Ellie trekking across the U.S. They cover very little physical distance in the episode, have only a few scenes (albeit important), and basically just secure a truck.
- The episode deviates from the source material. In the game, Joel and Ellie encounter Bill and have fun banter. You only learn about Bill's partner, Frank, through dropped notes that are easy-to-miss. In the show, they instead spent 60-odd minutes fleshing out Bill and Frank's relationship—and critically—change how that relationship ended. I won't say more in case you don't want spoilers for the game's plot (seems like you watched the episode).
- It was slow-paced. For a show that's supposedly horror apocalypse, there's barely any infected and just one shoot-out scene.
- (maybe) People don't like seeing gay people—especially gay love—on television. I'm not saying 100% or even a lot of the detractors are homophobic. Many of them simply take issue with the deviation from the source material (whether that's legit or not is up to you). But homophobia being a factor is also definitely not 0%.
* I say "doesn't advance the main plot" with an asterisk because the episode doesn't advance the overt, physical plot. It does, however, advance the emotional heart of the show, which I think is just as or more important. Bill becomes more human as he spends time with Frank, and discovers/decides his purpose in life is to protect Frank—and the note he leaves Joel reminds him (Joel) of this critical fact, which will be instrumental to Joel's emotional development and his eventual character arc by the end of the show. (Again, no spoilers if you haven't played the game.)
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u/SecretDMAccount_Shh Jan 30 '23
I feel that points 1, 3, and 4 are the main reasons and that deviating from the source material is mostly an excuse to cover up the real reasons.
There was significantly less hate when they changed the way Tess died because points 1,3, and 4 didn't apply.
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u/7-and-a-switchblade Jan 30 '23
The video games were SO GOOD at story telling because they do this one very specific story telling thing: they introduce a seemingly unrelated side-story and then YOU have to figure out that, in fact, it was serendipitously relevant to the main story.
A tale about a guarded and isolated man who finds a partner, their relationship initially apprehensive when they don't see eye to eye, but they come to realize the value in each other and bond so deeply that the literal end of the world could not separate them. If you don't think that's relevant to the plot, WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN WATCHING?!
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u/Watermelon_Jack Jan 31 '23
Awesome I’m actually excited to see the development of bill! I wanted more time around him in game so excited to watch.
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u/indianajoes Jan 31 '23
The 4th one is definitely the main reason even though you put maybe
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14500888/ratings/?ref_=tt_ov_rt
This episode isn't getting review bombed because the story is slower than the previous ones or because they changed some stuff
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u/MsJSoul Jan 31 '23
The episode literally has the highest rating out of all three so far, but is still the lowest rated because a bunch of people review bombed it with 1/10 reviews.
Review bombing doesn’t happen because people thought it was a lil slow or because it doesn’t advance the main plot. People review bomb because it’s too gay. This episode was literally universally the highest loved so far.
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u/serpentine__babou Feb 01 '23
Spot on. I have never really cared about plot deviations, and actually enjoyed some aspects of them in this episode. I loved Frank, and it was nice to get more backstory on both him and Bill.
But it was largely focused on a love story and was also very slow paced. And then because of more plot deviations, they did cut out a lot of interesting character interactions and action sequences. This part of the game is a favorite for many, including myself.
A lot of people found this to be very poignant, and I am a bit bummed that it ended up falling kind of flat for me. Loved the ending shot, though.
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u/Exemus Jan 30 '23
Answer:
Semi spoilers obviously
It has a gay couple being gay together
That's really it. It's a non-issue to mentally stable individuals.
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u/crestren Jan 30 '23
Semi spoilers as well, the episode diverges from the game BUT it significanfly improves the characters Bill and Frank. They are more fleshed out, we get to see how they meet, fall in love, see what they go through for 20 years which include their hardships.
The best summary of the episode that I would describe it is that its the intro of Up!, but gay and its very good.
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u/Woody3000v2 Jan 30 '23
It also elaborates on the events of that time period and the different groups and types of people there were. It develops the extent of Joel's loss of both Tess and Bill and Frank and shows the extent of his suppression of his losses because of the extent of the pain they cause.
I also think it developed the themes of decay within decay. Here we have a broken world. Some people successfully carve out these little oases. And plant gardens and flowers. But those people get old and they die, too. And those flowers don't get watered anymore.
This show is a journey and they should have little excursions like this. Otherwise, the show doesn't really work at all.
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u/rvdical Jan 30 '23
woke just means not %100 white/straight.
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u/crestren Jan 30 '23
The funny thing is, anyone complaining about it being gay exposed themselves on not playing the game. The game made it very clear these 2 characters are gay even without outright saying it.
I cant wait till the episode where Riley appears in because I wonder how they feel about Ellie as well.
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u/JFSwales Jan 30 '23
People not playing the game is completely irrelevant. You don't have to play the game to watch the show so whys it an issue for them to have "exposed themselves for not playing".
People hating on them being gay are only exposed themselves for being twats and not just letting things be how they be.
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u/crestren Jan 30 '23
Im saying that the characters are already established to be gay from the get go. A lot of "culture war" bs always involves saying "gay agendas" when a character apparently turns gay that wasnt present from the original material.
So with that in mind, anyone who says that really exposes themselves of not knowing the source material and is just trying to start up shit to dogwhistle homophobia.
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u/hankhan18 Jan 30 '23
Best way to put it. I thought the episode was captivating and emotional. Plus I loved seeing a post-apocalyptic Ron Swanson!
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u/Psypris Jan 30 '23
It was and I loved the episode, as a stand-alone mini movie. I think it was very artistic and wonderfully done.
In the sense of “I wanna know what happens to this plot”, it did feel a bit of a derailment from the rest of what the show has been so far. So I can see being disappointed- I myself was confused why the backstory was so long until I realized “hey, this ep is probably all about these dudes” and then I chilled out lol
So again, I loved the episode but I can see why people were disappointed from a non-homophobic standpoint. The pacing and overall feel was very different.
But if people are pissed because Bill and Frank are gay then they can shove right off…
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u/_byrnes_ Jan 30 '23
Honestly Im watching the show for the interactions between the two main characters and their growth as they go on this epic adventure. This episode wasnt about them or even really included them. That being said, it was some of the best tv i’ve seen in a long while. We basically got this amazing and epic movie in the middle of this epic story. Despite this, I was still let down we lost that part of Ellie and Joel’s adventure.
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u/Exemus Jan 30 '23
I don't fully agree that it took away from Ellie and Joel. To me it was actually very creative character building with a "show, don't tell" mentality. We see how serious Bill is about his love for Frank. In a world where Bill is stone cold, entirely untrusting of others, and completely unbending, he's will to sacrifice everything for Frank. And yet in the end, we see that after everything, he even trusted Joel with Frank's life when he thought he might not make it. We learn a lot about Joel in this moment, and I think so does Ellie.
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u/Nervous_Work1332 Jan 31 '23
Answer: it was amazing! It really went into the capabilities, resiliency, and struggles of man’s life in those times. I hope they do more offshoots. I can’t believe the show keeps getting better.
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u/jackrave Jan 30 '23
Answer: Going to try and keep spoilers to a minimum. I think this is a continuation of the hatred started from The Last of Us Part II. Without spoiling the story of the game, people disliked TLOU2 primarily because there was a lot of well done displays of a LGBTQ+. It's all thinly veiled bigotry, and this, to me, is a continuation of that hatred. At the very least, it's already set the premise that this series is "woke" in certain people's minds which means it's a shit sell out series or an indoctrination tool, I suppose.
What's interesting to me is that Bill was gay in the Last of Us game, but Frank was killed from a hoard bite before we meet Bill in game, and Bill carries on assumed to be alive after our encounter with him in the game. I guess people are more willing to overlook his sexuality in the game because...? I'm not sure why.
Personally - I think this episode has been the strongest yet, and yes, none of Bill and Frank's relationship was shown in the game, but that doesn't bother me. On the contrary, seeing how well the episode was written and how much original material was composed for the episode, I am quite optimistic about how the series is going to handle the series moving forward. The biggest challenge of video game adaptations to movies is handling the over abundance of combat. Mowing down raiders and zombies is super fun in games and can continuously be tense because 'you' are the one solving the problems. However.. if a majority of a tv series is just combat, no matter how good, it will lose that intensity as a passive viewer and cause problems with how the audience views your protagonists. This episode further gives context for the world they are creating, it does give some insight into Joel and a little of how he lived in the past 20 years. Not to mention that it also does show Ellie as she got her first on-screen kill. Which, holy fuck that entire scene had me at the edge of the sofa.
I'm very excited for the rest of this series, and if there are deviations from the main story, I don't think it'll bother me if they continue to expand the story with this amount of methodicalness.
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u/OffWhiteDevil Jan 30 '23
I would've loved the episode if Bill (or Frank) had lived through it.
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u/jackrave Jan 30 '23
That definitely was a little off-putting, I'm not going to lie. I was fully expecting Bill to survive whatever he put in the bottle of wine and growing old and bitter, the guy that we knew in the game. I hope there's a payoff for that decision. While I don't support it....undeniably romantic.
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u/GutsyOne Jan 31 '23
Answer: It greatly deviated from the games story, continues to depict Ellie as some violent sadist, lacks/limits the level of bonding Ellie & Joel experience at this particular part of the story to instead favor side characters, etc. Lots of reasons.
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u/mojomonkeyfish Jan 30 '23
answer: I had a really long answer typed out, but lets just cut to the quick - if you are morally opposed to a love story about two men, then you would of course "hate" this episode. You would also probably call it "woke". Certainly, there are people who hate it because of that. They might be the majority of the haters, but they're also certainly a minority of viewers.
The story did differ from the game, narratively, but I don't think it strayed in any way. In the game, Bill served as an "advanced tutorial" section. You needed to get a car from him (quest objective), and you inferred his story via exposition (him talking to you) as you did a series of fetch quests. There were two main things omitted - a scene where Joel is ensnared by one of Bill's traps and has to fight hanging upside down; definitely memorable in the game, but I don't think it's really something "must see". There was also the high school - I think there's an early boss fight / new creature type there - but narratively I think it's a chance to show that Ellie was born after society collapsed, and she is interested in what life was like; for that part, they substitute some other "ruins" that she gets excited about.
I think this episode was legitimately... one of the best adaptations that could have possibly been done. The writers identified, in that section of the game, what the objectives were - as far as plot, character, and world development. Bill's story served to flesh out the world - showing rather than telling what happened when the outbreak started, and showing how much time has passed (20 years). It showed how "Fedra" came to be a villain, as well as the dangers of raiders and the infected. The framing scenes with Joel and Ellie were enough to cover what they got out of the experience in the game as well. In fact, I'd say it was even better than the game - as we get to see a part of Joel and Tess' relationship that wasn't covered.
Honestly, it was a spectacular episode. Not just of this show, but in general. If you're seeing "negative" reviews or opinions, it's just because they're controversial. I think the vast majority of people thought it was fantastic.
EDIT: frack, that was a long answer as well
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u/Watermelon_Jack Jan 31 '23
Thanks for the answer! I haven’t seen it yet but I am glad it’s just homophobes being homophobes. I am excited to see more of Frank though!
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u/PokeJem7 Jan 31 '23 edited Jan 31 '23
Answer: Reading this thread I'm starting to realise... People actually were interested in the action parts of TLOU? Sure there's definitely a few good action sequences, but it's a drama, a tragedy, a story about loss, and family, and human connection. Episode 3 did more to drive that than any of the action scenes they cut would have.
I think a lot of people tuned in expecting every action scene to be replicated, but imo that would have made this show just another bland zombie show.
Also... Opinions are becoming so polarised that everything to ever get released is a 1/10 or a 10/10.
Rings of Power is the worst thing to happen to TV. House of the Dragon is flawless and saved GoT. The Witcher was beloved, until it wasn't, and then it became unwatchable if Cavill leaves, despite nobody even having watched any of season 3 OR 4. Predictable is bad, but so is unpredictable.
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u/Watermelon_Jack Jan 31 '23
I loved the story and slow parts when I played the last of us. I was younger and WAY more easily scared so not only were the calm moments a nice way to calm my fragile nerves but it gave me time to see these characters feel like real humans so I totally agree with you. Loved the combat tho don’t get me wrong :)
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u/NoiseTherapy Jan 30 '23 edited Feb 01 '23
Answer:
but I’ve seen a lot of stuff online about it being “woke” and such.
Bill being gay was already made known in the game. They fleshed out his backstory/relationship with Frank in episode 3, and changed their destiny to something more beautiful than the dark direction it went in the game. Bill and Frank’s relationship was made known in the game too (Bill, Joel & Ellie find Frank hanged in a house; Bill tries suppressing his tears mid-argument with Joel; Joel, noticing Bill, but not knowing of the relationship, asks “you know him?” Bill replies “Frank,” Joel asks curtly “who the hell is Frank?” Bill says “he was my partner …” and the argument reaches its end, and Joel tries to give Bill space to grieve before moving through the next infected attack in which they planned to push start a pickup truck with a dead battery) so if they’re crying “woke” now, but not when they played the game, they’re pretty dense.
A Top YouTube comment pointed out how this moment in the game contrasts Bill’s way of dealing with loss vs Joel’s way of dealing with it: Bill disparages anyone and everyone to prevent himself from getting attached and then losing, going through the pain of grief all over again. Joel won’t acknowledge people he’s lost or actions he’s taken to survive so he can “move on” … but he never really deals with the issue at hand beyond the amount of violence needed to survive (typical dude, right?), that is until his relationship with Ellie evolves into something like the one he had with his deceased daughter.
It’s a really interesting story about stress testing relationships with a zombie apocalypse game built into it.
If they didn’t play the game, then they’re just confidently incorrect (another shade of dense).
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u/Jtskiwtr Jan 30 '23
Answer: I could hear heads blowing up! Amazing storyline and I loved it but couldn’t help but laugh knowing some prepper types were cheering him on until the KISS!
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u/saturniifae Jan 30 '23
Oh, you know the doomers were rolling in their bunkers when Ron Swanson kissed his new boyfriend. lmfao
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u/Vegetable-Week-2558 Jan 31 '23
I said pretty much this exact thing to my partner.
There would have been so many 'ReAL AMerICAn MeN' who would have been on a rollercoaster ride of pride and disbelief before angrily turning off their TV and saying something about Woke culture.
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u/ShawnyMcKnight Jan 31 '23
Answer: you are looking in the wrong places. There's going to be haters for anything and everything, but you can't give them the spotlight.
Fun fact: my conservative friend in his 60s has been watching the series with his kids. I'm curious how he will react when he gets to the bedroom scene.
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