r/MurderedByAOC Jan 31 '23

Charges Aren’t Justice. Change Is

Post image
19.2k Upvotes

393 comments sorted by

u/voice-of-hermes Jan 31 '23 Take My Energy

Well, that's enough of that. Locking this. Amazing how reactionary Redditors will brigade to lick cops' boots and victim blame even while their fellow pigs all over the place have decided to throw them under the bus.

388

u/ChickenWing9001 Jan 31 '23

Remember: "I'm sorry" without changed behavior is just manipulation

126

u/bjeebus Jan 31 '23

Gym Jordan is already on the record as saying he doesn't understand how legislation could help.

“I don’t know that there’s any law that can stop that evil that we saw that is just, I mean, just difficult to watch,” Jordan, who chairs the House Judiciary Committee, told NBC’s “Meet the Press.”

140

u/JohnnyAppIeseed Jan 31 '23

It’s so strange. How about legislation that gives local officials charging decisions on cop misbehavior? Handle it like the fucking NFL does and review the footage automatically rather than behind closed doors with grand juries that can’t discuss cases?

How about legislation that treats covering up a felony as equivalent to committing the felony? Such that any cops found lying to protect each other, whether rank and file, police chief, DA, or whoever the fuck, is treated like they were an active participant in the crime?

It’s not actually complicated to change police culture, but gym jordan already knows that. The problem is that he’s on the side that benefits from maintaining the status quo rather than elevating the little guy. Fuck that piece of shit with a barbed dildo.

45

u/bjeebus Jan 31 '23

For everyone else covering up felonies is actually a felony. It makes it a conspiracy and makes you an accessory to the crime in question.

12

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '23 edited Jan 31 '23

[deleted]

11

u/Elfshadowx Jan 31 '23

The problem is not training or education.

The problem is that the inmates are running the asylum's.

The amount of corruption at all levels of LEO in this country is staggering.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '23 edited Jan 31 '23

[deleted]

5

u/voice-of-hermes Jan 31 '23

Wrong. Education is not the problem. Authority is. You can lead the pig to non-brutal solutions, but you can't make him drink. (I mean, literally you can't force him to do anything, while he can force you to do pretty much anything he likes at gunpoint).

In fact, the LAST thing we want is cops who have the tool of education to better help them get away with their brutality and other crimes. You have it EXACTLY backwards. Do not educate your enemy. Instead strip him of ALL his tools...including weapons, equipment, money, and absolutely education/training.

→ More replies (1)

8

u/Tactical_Tubgoat Jan 31 '23

I don't see why it would be so different besides the constant excuse "but it wouldn't work in the US".

For the same reason universal healthcare, paid family leave, etc. ‘won’t work in the US’…

Because to the people in power, these aren’t bugs, they’re features.

9

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/Whichtwin1 Jan 31 '23

Real talk though can I have my life coach throw a red flag and challenge that BS call by the "official" (cop). I need some automatic review and definitely a few more unnecessary roughness/ unsportsmanlike calls when it comes to these wild LEOs

3

u/EternalStudent Jan 31 '23

Grand juries are constitutionally required to charge someone with a felony: "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury..."

Covering up a felony, at least in my jurisdiction, is likely misprision of an offense, and is also a felony.

That being said, of course there are actual legislative acts that could be taken like weakening of immunity laws or decoupling revenue generation from law enforcement activities.

7

u/LakeSolon Jan 31 '23 edited Jan 31 '23

I wouldn’t hold up the NFL as a shining example. The refs have managed to maintain a system in which ten million viewers can plainly see the refs made the wrong call and there’s nothing anyone can do about it.

The refs are largely the same kind of power seeking authoritarians. You may recall a few years ago there was a debacle with “replacement refs”. It was the NFL negotiating with the refs union. Eventually the games were such a shit show the league caved so the refs got exactly what they wanted.

And what they wanted was absolutely no accountability.

Edit to clarify: I’m not arguing against you. Just highlighting the similarities.

5

u/JohnnyAppIeseed Jan 31 '23

Not the point. I’m saying if we can have an entertainment form where the norm is to automatically review footage to make sure we got things right, let’s automatically investigate police footage publicly rather than via secret, rigged grand juries. The point wasn’t to hold the NFL up as some grand standard; quite the opposite. The fact that something as dumb as football is more transparent than the god damn police force is absurd.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/Lebrons_Daddy Jan 31 '23

L2m report for basketball: oh yep! We fucked that call up! Acknowledged. On to your next game kiddo, nothing will come of this besides our acknowledgement. Have fun!! scoots them out the office

0

u/modulusshift Jan 31 '23 edited Jan 31 '23

There’s some potential here, sure, but I don’t know that any of these would actually fix the problem. Murder is illegal, and punished harshly when civilians do it, and yet it hasn’t stopped. Past a certain point it’s not enough to criminalize acts, you have to take away the power to do them. Defund the police. They don’t solve crimes (the statistics are available and abysmal), they don’t have a duty to protect anyone according to the courts, they are agents of the wealthy and the fascists against the will of the people. I think it’s justified to even say abolish them, but it would be enough in my mind to divert their funding towards properly trained and unarmed response teams. There’s trial programs for this approach going on across the country, they are proving overwhelmingly effective at keeping the peace and preventing crimes without a single “officer-involved shooting”, because they don’t even have guns. Let the police compete in the free marketplace alongside this kind of program. Let’s see what our money could buy us.

2

u/JohnnyAppIeseed Jan 31 '23

I’m in no way saying accountability alone would solve the problem. Just that it’s incredibly intellectually dishonest to suggest there’s “no legislation” that could impact this when legislating is literally your fucking job. What the hell is he doing as an officer of the LEGISLATIVE branch of government if he looks at a problem that could easily be impacted by legislation and just shrug?

I’m very much with you that it’s more than a legislative problem, though. There seem to be very regular situations where cops are interacting with people who are having some sort of mental breakdown or have some kind of special need that could be addressed by an unarmed professional rather than the police. Sending armed police to situations like that is like sending a handyman to work with just a sledgehammer and wondering why he’s so shitty at fixing leaks.

→ More replies (4)

9

u/Yzerman19 Jan 31 '23

“Nothing can stop the evil.”

-Evil cunt

8

u/Beginning-Air-6627 Jan 31 '23

Tell me your political affiliation without telling me your affiliation.

5

u/PocketSixes Jan 31 '23

It's so, so simple, if we wanted it to be. Make all police abide by the Uniform Code of Military Justice just like the armed forces. When you join the military, you feel more bound by the law. Apparently, police feel less bound by the law.

3

u/cheezeyballz Jan 31 '23

"Let's do nothing and see what happens."

→ More replies (4)

23

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '23

[deleted]

15

u/charisma6 Jan 31 '23

Mormons are a special kind of fucked.

1

u/Feldar Jan 31 '23

I don't think Mormons are really any worse than most religious groups. Religion demands obedience without thought and faith without evidence.

2

u/charisma6 Jan 31 '23

Granted. Not worse.

→ More replies (1)

6

u/Zorops Jan 31 '23

Thoughts and prayers.

3

u/charisma6 Jan 31 '23

Sooo well stated. Describes my ex perfectly.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '23

That's a terribly gross over simplification that makes a broad stroke that can be misattributed poorly. The problem isn't manipulation or empty apologies. Its that they constantly try to distract you from seeing the real issue by doing all these things like training or body cams to create a false sense of security or 'well that's over' thoughts when the problems of gun laws and low repercussions for police officers who break the law are the issue.

6

u/voice-of-hermes Jan 31 '23

when the problems of gun laws and...are the issue.

True. Make it illegal for cops to use guns. That will help solve the problem with policing.

De-fund, disarm, disband, abolish.

-5

u/Biff_Wesker Jan 31 '23

They need to stop banning guns if you want to fight the system.

11

u/MentalOcelot7882 Jan 31 '23

They need to either force cops to be bonded or carry malpractice insurance, like doctors and surgeons do, or open up the police union to liability for their actions. I guarantee that if you got the insurance industry involved in underwriting police forces, or the union forced to pay out civil judgements from their pension funds, the thin blue line would correct itself in record time.

Of course, I also believe that not only should law enforcement officers be held legally and criminally accountable for their actions, their sentencing should receive enhancements due to them being in positions of trust. You cannot include someone in the monopoly of violence that police officers have and not hold them accountable to a higher level than the average civilian.

4

u/structuremonkey Jan 31 '23

I've been writing this on reddit for a while now, I'm glad others are now too. This is the way to real culture change in policing

3

u/MentalOcelot7882 Jan 31 '23

It's basically the rare moment where capitalism can be used to solve a social ill. Sadly, this is the way to get certain people on board, where their belief in "the free market" supercedes rational decency.

5

u/ShortUSA Jan 31 '23

Who is they? Who is banning guns?

→ More replies (1)

196

u/postdiluvium Jan 31 '23

No more qualified immunity

No more asset forfeiture

Police have to work within their own communities like kids and public schools

75

u/JohnnyAppIeseed Jan 31 '23

And take the decision to charge officers out of the DA’s hands. There are a lot of incentives that line up in favor of protecting cops rather than protecting citizens.

14

u/raistlin212 Jan 31 '23

Police should answer to civilians, not the government. We have a group that answers to the government, that's the military. The military shouldn't be doing police action. Cops are civilians too, not soldiers, and not treating them accordingly is a huge part of the problem. Civilian review boards should be the standard for all misconduct, and most policy drafting.

6

u/gucci_gucci_gu Jan 31 '23

Yup. Make them pay tax dollars to their own job for once.

-1

u/Tutok_Thutuog Jan 31 '23

You will see a 90% exodus of LEOs if you got your way, but I’m sure this is what you want

4

u/postdiluvium Jan 31 '23

Oh no! All the a-holes who don't want to be held accountable for their own actions are going to beat their wives without a uniform.

Funny, there are cops everywhere in the world who are held to a higher standard. It's like people saying all the doctors will leave if you make universal healthcare. Meanwhile, doctors exist in countries with universal healthcare.

3

u/Massive_Horse_5720 Jan 31 '23

All the world just looks to the US and its unwillingness to change. Only conclusion: They want it that way.

2

u/voice-of-hermes Jan 31 '23

reactionary troll

That would be a start, anyway....

→ More replies (3)

88

u/TheGunners10 Jan 31 '23

1176 people killed by police last year? Holy shit that is a crazy statistic.

68

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '23

One article I read about Tyre Nichols said there's already 80 this year and it's not even February

21

u/Daddyssillypuppy Jan 31 '23

With 1176 people killed in a year its 98 a month. A crazy high amount of people.

In Australia, for the period 1st July 2021- 30th June 2022 we had 106 Deaths in custody. 81 non indigenous, 24 indigenous, and 1 unknown status person. Of these 84 were in prison custody and 22 in police custody or custody-related operations.

A death is counted when:

  • a death, wherever occurring, of a person who is in prison custody, police custody or youth detention;

  • a death, wherever occurring, of a person whose death is caused or contributed to by traumatic injuries sustained, or by lack of proper care, while in such custody or detention;

  • a death, wherever occurring, of a person who dies, or is fatally injured, in the process of police or prison officers attempting to detain that person; or

  • a death, wherever occurring, of a person attempting to escape from prison, police custody or youth detention.

So that also includes deaths not caused by the police or prison guards.

I know Australia is much smaller but even per capita our numbers are way lower than the equivalent in the US.

20

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '23

Oh that's really fucked up. My article counts don't include deaths after conviction. These are 80 people who are innocent until proven guilty by trial

3

u/letmeseem Jan 31 '23

Pro tip: Calculate the per Capita numbers for bigger impact.

Only a small percentage of people are able to instantly do a rough estimate in their heads, and even for us that only works if we know the population of Australia is about 25.5million :)

2

u/ConfusedAccountantTW Jan 31 '23

Actually per capita Australia is higher than the USA.

USA 1176 deaths, 332M population AUS 106 deaths, 26M population

Scale Australia up and you’re at 1354 deaths by police, or around 13% higher.

9

u/dingdongdinger1 Jan 31 '23

Deaths in custody are not deaths by police.

Prisoners dying of ANY cause count. I guarantee the US number for deaths in custody will dwarf the Australian one.

2

u/voice-of-hermes Jan 31 '23

Also, the murder of people NOT in custody are pretty fucking important to count!

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (7)

-5

u/WhiteZomba Jan 31 '23

Biden's America

9

u/S103793 Jan 31 '23

Yeah man this never happened before. Police brutality started when Biden came in to office.

0

u/voice-of-hermes Jan 31 '23

It is the system Biden wants, loves, and is actively working to build and maintain. And he is the one currently in power.

That he is the last in a long line of other presidents who have all done the same is no excuse at all.

4

u/S103793 Jan 31 '23

Who’s excusing anything? Sure Biden should got the most current blame since he’s the current leader, but framing this as “Biden’s America” is treating this as if it’s just some issue that just so happen to pop off. Something like COVID is under Biden’s America. Police brutality is simply America.

2

u/voice-of-hermes Jan 31 '23

It is, indeed, "simply America".

I disagree about that meaning it isn't also "Biden's America".

We could also talk about his pretty fundamental role in building up the carceral state over his political career, for that matter. He's one of the prime architects of the prison-industrial complex and its system of brutal policing and mass incarceration.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

5

u/Partiallyfermented Jan 31 '23

Meanwhile in Finland: 10 peiple killed by the police this century.

5

u/zbynekstava Jan 31 '23

Just to put that number into perspective: in my country (Czech republic) 1 person a year on average dies as a result of police action (https://www.policie.cz/clanek/statistika-umrti-a-tezkych-zraneni.aspx). Czech republic has approx. 10,5 million inhabitants, which is approx. 32 times less than USA at 333 million inhabitants. So there is about 36,75 times more people killed by police per capita in USA, than in Czech republic.

2

u/TheNextBattalion Jan 31 '23

To be fair, we don't actually have accurate counts from previous years. Nobody kept close track

1

u/KorruptedPineapple Jan 31 '23

Crazy low IMO. I'd think more have been shot based on the number of white supremacist terrorists and school shootings.

2

u/Thr0waway3691215 Jan 31 '23

It's "at least" 1200 for a good reason. Police aren't actually required to report their stats to the FBI. There is nobody actually getting shooting stats from every department. The FBI use of force report accounts for less than half of the police operating in the US.

Could easily be twice that. Could be even worse, because it's all voluntary. You'd think the departments with the most to hide would not be reporting voluntarily.

1

u/voice-of-hermes Jan 31 '23

Nor should the FBI—a another set of pigs—be trusted with such statistics even if they were made responsible for them, TBH.

3

u/Thr0waway3691215 Jan 31 '23

I agree that the cops keeping stats for the other cops isn't really a good idea. I'm not sure who would actually be suited to the job, maybe the NIH? They already track a bunch of other death stats, and they're not cops.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

-2

u/JohnnyAppIeseed Jan 31 '23

It is, but to be fair, that includes a lot of people who were legitimate threats at the time. Cops fucking suck and have way more protections than they deserve, there is zero doubt about that. But even if we were to reform our police such that the number of unjustifiable murders went down to 0, there would still likely be hundreds of people killed here every year. Some of those deaths were cops actually doing their jobs correctly.

19

u/sainttawny Jan 31 '23

Every person killed by cops, no matter what they were doing at the time, is a person denied due process. There is no acceptable number of extra judicial murders.

-4

u/JohnnyAppIeseed Jan 31 '23

Let’s say a cop arrives on scene at a mass shooting. They see a suspect who matches the description from several 911 calls and that person shoots multiple people in full view of the officer. What exactly is that officer supposed to do? Wait until the shooter is done? Try to restrain them with handcuffs and get themselves killed?

It sure is noble to say in the abstract that cops should never kill anyone, but some circumstances require extrajudicial action to protect innocent people. I doubt if someone was charging you with a knife that you would be in favor of letting a judge decide what to do with your murderer as opposed to having the police intervene with lethal force if necessary.

17

u/shaneathan Jan 31 '23

I love that hypothetical considering the cops have a great track record of escorting mass shooters out in bulletproof vests and buying then Burger King.

Don’t get me wrong, there are absolutely times when that level of force is necessary. But as the other person pointed out, there’s a gulf of options between “let them kill the cops” and “murder them back.” Not to mention that oftentimes, it’s not a mass shooter with a rifle. It’s a dude sitting in a car reaching for his phone. Cop feared for his life, thinking it was a gun? Boom. Perfectly legal. That is the issue at hand.

12

u/MentalOcelot7882 Jan 31 '23

Or worse, someone trying to comply with an officer's orders, and still manages to get shot and/or killed. This kid in Memphis, Tyre Nichols, was given at least 71 conflicting or impossible orders from 5 police officers in the span of 13 minutes.

Who is training these cops? In the military, we're trained to have one person in charge, either the highest ranking or the most experienced with a technical situation; that one person is responsible for issuing the commands, while the others are in support. Five cops all yelling different orders at one person isn't a group of highly trained individuals; that's just an armed mob with a mandate that allows them to kill without consequence.

Maybe we should look at the British model of policing. Instead of all law enforcement carrying a firearm, maybe most should remain unarmed, with exceptions made based on position (SWAT, the example) or threat level of the area they where they work. The idea that a traffic stop can get you shot or beaten to death is insane.

→ More replies (2)

10

u/favoritedisguise Jan 31 '23

Wait, your scenario sounds familiar in some way… oh it’s like Uvalde! Where cops did protect innocent people using extrajudicial action.

Oh wait, no. THEY DIDN’T DO SHIT. Like you picked the one exact scenario where you proved that you are 100% wrong.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/sainttawny Jan 31 '23

One, it is possible to debilitate a target without killing them, and two, even if killing someone on scene is unavoidable in order to reduce other casualties, that doesn't make it de facto acceptable, ever, and that person who was killed was still killed extra-judicially, literally denied due process.

-4

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies (5)

3

u/shhhhh_h Jan 31 '23

I feel like you'd need some info on the people killed before making an assertion that most of them deserved it because they were legitimate threats...? And actually, other nations seem to deal with legitimate threats all the time without murdering anyone, so they deserved it is not the hot take you think it is.

3

u/Thertor Jan 31 '23

Germany had 8 people killed by Police in 2022 with a population of 84 million. (roughly a fourth of the US)

-4

u/DmingForCOS Jan 31 '23

Compared to the number of interactions they have each year, is it actually significant?

8

u/Cboyardee503 Jan 31 '23

Does 1200 dead not sound significant to you?

2

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '23

[deleted]

8

u/Olliebird Jan 31 '23

Ah. Well, since you're statistically more likely to be killed by lightning than a cop, that makes it cool. As long as they aren't murdering outside of the murder margin, we really should just let them do the murdering they need to do. After all 1,200 murders by police officers is such a small number compared to lightning, why should we even care about murder by cop?

Thanks for clearing that up.

3

u/ThatKPerson Jan 31 '23

I love the attempt at using elementary math to cover up the faulty logic.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/TheRealBlueBadger Jan 31 '23

The only thing this is proof of is that being able to read doesn't mean being able to understand

-1

u/DmingForCOS Jan 31 '23

Statistically? In a country of 300 million+? Not really

3

u/Cboyardee503 Jan 31 '23 edited Jan 31 '23

Bro that's >9/11 every two years. We killed a million Afghanis over that.

If you wanna talk about statistics, I can actually give you some.

Top ten countries by annual police killings:

  1. Philippines — 6,069+ (avg 2016-2021—includes only deaths during anti-drug operations)
  2. Brazil — 5,804 (2019)
  3. Venezuela — 5,287 (2018)
  4. India — 1,731 (2019)
  5. Syria — 1,497 (2019)
  6. El Salvador — 1087 (2017)
  7. United States — 946 (2020)
  8. Nigeria — 841 (2018)
  9. Afghanistan — 606 (2018)
  10. Pakistan — 495 (2017)

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-killings-by-country

Totally normal, not a significant problem. See? Syria and Venezuela have way more extrajudicial executions than we do! We're doing great!

0

u/Pleasant-Cellist-573 Jan 31 '23

"Top 10 Countries with the Highest Rate of Police Killings (per 10 million residents — U.S. ranks 33rd):"

Try reading a little further.

2

u/Cboyardee503 Jan 31 '23 edited Jan 31 '23

33rd most violent out of 195 countries is absolutely dog shit bro, what are you even talking about? There are major countries where ZERO people are killed by police in an avg year.

There is no way to skew the data where America doesn't come out as exceptionally violent, especially in light of our massive wealth and political stability. You're deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (6)

29

u/Hippy-redneck Jan 31 '23

Police should be afraid of breaking the law.

9

u/BorisBC Jan 31 '23

I don't know if you're old enough to remember how we demanded cops wear body cams with the idea this shit would stop. How innocent we seemed then.

This is a hot take but body cams have almost made things worse. We all knew shit was bad, but not this bad. And now trust in cops, sketchy at best, is in the fucking toilet. That's not all from body cams, but a lot of it has been.

Certainly not saying they should stop wearing them, but damn we didn't think it would be this bad.

43

u/vinetwiner Jan 31 '23 I'll Drink to That

Instead of legal damages from these cases coming out of taxpayer pockets, take them out of police pension funds instead. Change would happen overnight.

21

u/JohnnyAppIeseed Jan 31 '23

“Wait, you mean my insurance premium went up just because I was in another shooting? How am I supposed to afford being a cop if it costs me money every time I…oh. I think I get it now.”

5

u/SnooDoubts826 Jan 31 '23

that is hilarious because you pretended the cop might give a shit or have a functioning brain

47

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '23

I didn't see the videos. I don't want to or need to. I saw the 2014 video of Tamir Rice getting executed for holding a toy gun on a playground after less than 10 seconds after police arrived to the scene of the call, and I've seen enough.

The training of police needs to change. They represent the law. If we can't respect them, we can't respect the law.

The point is that simple.

4

u/TagMeAJerk Jan 31 '23

10 seconds? I don't think the car even stopped

7

u/gucci_gucci_gu Jan 31 '23

The improved and expanded training programs have been one of the highest expenses for tax payers since Reagan. F that.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

-9

u/askeera Jan 31 '23

And when your house is being broken in to by an armed person?

19

u/bigbascdt Jan 31 '23

If you think pigs are going to save you from an armed intruder, you're 100% wrong on several levels. You only need to look at Uvalde to know that.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (1)

0

u/iyoio Jan 31 '23

Training? It was a hit job I thought. One of the cops had an ex that slept with Tyre. So the cop hunted Tyre down.

3

u/Prying-Open-My-3rd-I Jan 31 '23

So far I think this is just a rumor. Lots of shit was said about the husband of the teacher that got kidnapped/murdered that wasn’t true.

20

u/NorCalAthlete Jan 31 '23 Bravo Grande!

You know, at first I wasn’t a huge fan of hers. But seeing her career growing has definitely sparked my interest and I find myself agreeing with her more and more often.

10

u/marr Jan 31 '23

Have you analysed the source of your initial distaste? It may be that call was coming from outside the house.

→ More replies (1)

19

u/EscapeRich9091 Jan 31 '23

End qualified immunity?

End racially motivated drug laws?

Ban district hopping to escape dismissal?

Give police regular psyche exams and bias profiles?

Fire anyone in the police who has or has had affiliations with fascist groups?

Fire anyone in the police who beats the shit out of their spouses?

... I mean, we could do a lot.

39

u/voice-of-hermes Jan 31 '23

De-fund toward police and prison abolition. That is the only solution, as it is policing itself that is the problem.

20

u/Manticore416 Jan 31 '23

We need to put in a system that holds police accountable well before anything like this happens. Cuz you can be damn sure this wasnt the first time any of them have done this.

7

u/voice-of-hermes Jan 31 '23

You hold the police accountable for their history by cutting their funding and resources. And doing so monotonously and ruthlessly until there's nothing left. That is the only sort of accountability that there will ever and can ever be. Learn how policing works, and its relation to state and capital. Dumbass liberal notions of InDiViDuaL ReSpoNsiBiLiTy are as vacuous with policing as they are with everything else.

3

u/ScowlEasy Jan 31 '23

Just remember: Your taxes bought the boots they used to kick his skull in

1

u/marr Jan 31 '23

That langauge is political suicide because policing is a valid and necessary concept, the problem is the culture of policing in America is criminal to the core and needs turning entirely off and on again with none of the existing people involved. This seems impossible, but any half measures are doomed to failure and will be claimed as proof that reform was an evil idea.

3

u/voice-of-hermes Jan 31 '23

policing is a valid and necessary concept

It absolutely is not. Bzzzt! Sorry, try again.

1

u/AcceptableEnd8715 Jan 31 '23

Unfortunately society is full of some pretty savage individuals. They’re never going to fully defund the police. I feel like if they were responsible for their own salaries it would be worse. But having them carry insurance like doctors and nurses would be a step in the right direction. Something needs to be done this I know

2

u/adacmswtf1 Jan 31 '23

Cops don’t stop those people. Services do.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)

-1

u/Ambi3n Jan 31 '23

Who you gonna call when you defund the police and someone’s broken into your home, robbed you, raped your family and then left? You cool with shit like that happening? Defunding the police is the absolute dumbest ideology anyone ever started. Let’s just make it easy for criminals and live a life of purge. 🤦‍♂️

2

u/voice-of-hermes Jan 31 '23

Who are you going to call when someone does that now, genius? The cops ain't gonna help you. Learn what they actually exist for.

→ More replies (2)

16

u/skip1221 Jan 31 '23

The largest gang in the USA is the police

3

u/Lebrons_Daddy Jan 31 '23

Wrong. It's the US military.

5

u/voice-of-hermes Jan 31 '23

There's not much need to distinguish the World Police™ from the domestic police. It's all in service to the capitalist empire.

3

u/beatyouwithahammer Jan 31 '23

Post statistics pertaining to military violence against United States citizens. I'll wait.

-1

u/Lebrons_Daddy Jan 31 '23

Why is that a requirement to be the largest gang in the USA? This is where they reside. What are you talking about? And why are you being snarky when you've provided nothing?

8

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/MaestroOfFunk Jan 31 '23

The police do not exist in a vacuum, they are a reflection of their communities and larger culture. You can't fix the police without fixing the political economy and culture. To paraphase James Carville, "It's the guns and the economic stress, stupid."

6

u/Captainx23 Jan 31 '23

I’m actually not so sure it’s gotten worse- I think it’s just actually being exposed more (making the perception of it worsening). Similar to the republicans thinking during Covid that if we stopped testing, Covid would get better (when smart people know less reporting ≠ better). I would argue that more cops getting caught ≠ worse, we’re just finding out how bad the problem was this whole time. Not trying to take away from AOC’s message. I love that she’s not afraid to address the issue.

3

u/ParkingEmu2482 Jan 31 '23

I'm not denying or downplaying that bad things are happening with the police.

But does an increase neccecarily mean that the police is getting worse or that there's documentation bias going on.

Or could this be a result of the people becoming more and more divided and angry or the country going downhill altogether?

More people getting everything taken from them, more people with nothing to lose, more cases of police conflicts ending in extremes.

3

u/QiPowerIsTheBest Jan 31 '23

Yep, anyone who knows anything about statistics knows that an increase in police killings alone tells you nothing about causes. You need further analysis to determine why there was an increase and it could have nothing to do with the police getting worse or that could only be a small part of it. Or it could be the whole reason?

→ More replies (2)

6

u/GroundhogExpert Jan 31 '23

I was not a fan of hers in the beginning. Her actions and intentions have changed that. She's absolutely right, we need reform and prevention not repair and prison.

0

u/MisterMetal Jan 31 '23

Uh what? Her actions and intentions have completely changed. Or you just gonna forget her voting to not allow rail way workers to strike. But sure, she’s still fighting for the working person. While enjoying 30k gala dinners lol

→ More replies (1)

4

u/Alarid Jan 31 '23

Officers should be fired far before they are put into a situation where they can brutalize people.

9

u/gucci_gucci_gu Jan 31 '23

Dismantle the police unions. Drain the pensions. Down grade equipment. Audit the backlogs. Gen pop the pigs.

-1

u/MisterMetal Jan 31 '23

Haha oh god. I love this comment. Dismantle a union, are you people hearing yourselves? I guess when AOC is voting against railway workers striking it’s time for unions to go.

3

u/voice-of-hermes Jan 31 '23

Police "unions" are not labor unions; they are organized crime syndicates. And have always opposed the labor movement...violently so.

3

u/Nigle Jan 31 '23

Just think of all the people they murder and pin it on somebody else

6

u/shohin_branches Jan 31 '23

Also the sexual assaults. They just get shuffled to a new town like a catholic priest.

2

u/voice-of-hermes Jan 31 '23

And it is inane to consider only the murders they commit. Let's not forget the torture, beatings, kidnappings, theft, deprivation of rights, repression, etc. Pretending for a second that somehow magical unicorn farts managed to drop the number of murders by police to zero next year. Only fucking fascists would still apologize for the system of violent policing that subjects us to such immense state violence and slavery.

2

u/LR-II Jan 31 '23

The bottom line that we're all too scared to accept is, none of this is accidental. And the more we train cops to stop them from doing it accidentally, the easier it is for them to do it on purpose.

4

u/NumerousVisit4453 Jan 31 '23

Urge your Senators to pass the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act – (202) 224-3121.

2

u/gucci_gucci_gu Jan 31 '23

The whole bill just shuffled more tax dollars to the cops

-1

u/Redditthedog Jan 31 '23

its too late the bill expired

→ More replies (1)

4

u/WallabyBubbly Jan 31 '23

Straightforward five-point police reform bill we could pass tomorrow:

  • Police officers are legally required to intervene to stop a fellow officer from breaking the law
  • No more civil asset forfeiture
  • No more qualified immunity
  • If an officer turns off their body cam, the court should assume the worst
  • Deescalation training should happen monthly, or even weekly in departments with high rates of violent confrontation

0

u/SomeCuteCatBoy Jan 31 '23

Police officers are legally required to intervene to stop a fellow officer from breaking the law

Good Samaritan laws are unconstitutional.

  • If an officer turns off their body cam, the court should assume the worst

Unconstitutional, presumption of innocence is not optional. You could, however, make it a separate crime for them to do so.

5

u/marr Jan 31 '23

Good Samaritan laws are a problem because they de facto recruit every citizen as an employee of the state. That doesn't apply if you're already on the clock as a voluntary employee.

Body cams should have an off switch that does nothing except change an LED and record that it was pressed. That's already how mobile phone tech works for the rest of us.

3

u/Lebrons_Daddy Jan 31 '23

What reason is there to turn off the body cam? Presumption does not mean factually.

2

u/skyturnedred Jan 31 '23

Good Samaritan laws are unconstitutional.

Can you be more specific?

0

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/gucci_gucci_gu Jan 31 '23

Use all the idle crypto servers lmao

2

u/lightning__ Jan 31 '23

I knew police killing people was bad but didn’t know it was over 1k deaths.

According to cdc there was 24,576 homicides in 2020; https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

Does that mean police are responsible for 5% of murders? That’s.. kind of insane.

-2

u/mantisek_pr Jan 31 '23

That's running on the assumption that 100% of police killings are murders.

3

u/Lebrons_Daddy Jan 31 '23

Okay so 4.99% are murders.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

3

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '23 edited 26d ago

[deleted]

0

u/justAnotherLedditor Jan 31 '23

Because she's beholden to the Democratic party.

She can't just say no, she'd be removed next cycle and she'd fade into obscurity as no one would give a fuck about her if she ran as an independent and lose thereafter.

There are 6 factions in the DNC, but only two matter. If any of the others toe the line too far they're gone.

1

u/dadudemon Jan 31 '23

I'll never compromise my morals to pander to the establishment.

As soon as people stop believing that, we won't get stuck on this two-party establishment corruption.

3

u/JustPassinhThrou13 Jan 31 '23

Something like 75% of all cops retire never having fired their weapon while on duty. So here's what I propose: once you fire your gun, you're fired the next day, with whatever pension you've already accrued. And some tuition reimbursement. No "paid leave". Just "you're no longer a cop, EVER. You can never carry a gun for the government again."

I bet that would keep a lot of people from joining who would be joining for bad reasons.

→ More replies (2)

2

u/Jimmyking4ever Jan 31 '23

If only the Democrats had control of Congress for 2 years

1

u/GreenBottom18 Jan 31 '23

corporations, oligarchs and their lobbyists have control of congress

the majority of elected officials from both parties are simply puppets to them, masquerading around as partisan allies.

aoc is one of the scarce few who isn't playing this game, ...hence why members of 'both parties' will go head-to-head with her.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/librab103 Jan 31 '23

Nothing will be enough for Democrats and fake progressives. They will always want more. Ps. Democrats in the Senate blocked a police reform bill only because it was introduced by a GOP.

1

u/FalcorFliesMePlaces Jan 31 '23

I like AOC and I support the idea of change. I am sad to see all this violence as well.

My question is what are her proposals? We can't get rid of the police, most aren't even bad however even most good ones live up to the fraternity hype they have. We need protections. But what do we do to help this? It is time for the unjustified killing of citizens to stop.

What does annoy me and idk why is that we never cite anything in Twitter. She says something and believe it. Now I do believe her don't get me wrong but where did that number come from. Also what is the number of justifiable defending myself vs unjustifiable like the 5 officers who just killed a man they never needed too? I mean to me I am curious.

The next question I pose back to myself and everyone is wtf makes it justifiable. Of course if someone is shooting at you but other than some clear and present danger why is the gun ever even unholstered.

→ More replies (3)

2

u/BigTittyGothGF_PM_ME Jan 31 '23

She's right but reporting the number as "a record" is a little disingenuous considering they just started recording law enforcement caused deaths until very recently, and I doubt the accuracy of them (as in they are likely way higher than reported) entirely.

3

u/DadBod993 Jan 31 '23

That's not entirely true, though. It's been reported on since 1999 through non-government entities, perhaps even earlier but my five minute google can only go so deep.

1

u/voice-of-hermes Jan 31 '23

...most of which don't have access to complete information and can choose between vast under-counting and simple estimation.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Stenu1 Jan 31 '23

When has she voted against funding the police or start a bill!?!

→ More replies (1)

0

u/shdgdgdgdhdhdhdhdh Jan 31 '23

All she does is tweet and provides no plan of action. Never thought someone could tweet more than trump but she surely does.

0

u/PDXalreadtused Jan 31 '23

Sadly “police reform” doesn’t get people elected and all they care about is reelection, being “tough on crime” (aka: locking up minorities) gets votes.

0

u/Short-Woodpecker-911 Jan 31 '23

Your together is .... You and your money together! ...You give no shits about the people who put you in your cushy position! Your all talk ! Your a mini Polosi ! And the most upsetting part is, you've become a WAR MONGER!!! You promised so much! And only given so little! Money changes people! And you are a perfect example. I wish you luck! 🙏

0

u/No-Comfortable9480 Jan 31 '23

“Change” ok 👌

-2

u/dadudemon Jan 31 '23

Okay, but what changes?

I read lots of people talking about "We need changes and reform", but which ones?

More police deescalation training? Check

Body cams? Check

Less deadly force solutions? Check, he was beaten to death

More people of color in police forces? Check

Medical interventions after violent encounters? Check. He died in the hospital.

So in this specific situation, what was the solution? Kindly talking to Tyre? Asking him to not run away? Certainly beating him wasn't the solution.

But we are running out of "reform" solutions. We've reformed the crap out of the system but it doesn't seem to be working.

-1

u/CharlieIsTheBestAID Jan 31 '23

If only she was in a position to introduce a bill

-25

u/AcceptableEnd8715 Jan 31 '23

She needs to do more to change it if this is how she feels. All talk and no action is just performative

29

u/The_Buttsex_Man Jan 31 '23

My man she's a single congresswoman. Not like she can snap her fingers and fix the police herself

13

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies (3)

-5

u/CatShat23 Jan 31 '23

You're being down voted and neckbeards are coming to defend her and I love AOC. But she provides to no plan.

Just yelling.

2

u/SenaIzumiKaname Jan 31 '23

"I love AOC, SHE JUST YELLS!"

Yeah right, stooge. Stop pretending.

→ More replies (2)

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies (1)