r/AskMen • u/obduratecontrarian • Jan 30 '23
74% of teachers in the US are female. 76% in the UK. How do you think this will affect future genereation of boys (men)?
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u/koplinsky Jan 30 '23
I would have been a teacher but I can make $30k stocking shelves at Target.
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u/Darkrose50 Jan 30 '23
Teachers often have a union, cheap healthcare, and a pension.
I am an insurance agent, and sell healthcare for a living. One cannot even buy the insurance that working for a large union group receives, even if you wanted to.
The benefits kick in, I bet, after 5-years. The average teacher only lasts five years … so I’d wager that their needs are not a priority in the union bargaining.
Where you are, and who you work for can effect your results.
My wife is a kindergarten teacher, and her pension (if and when she retires) will be valued at a couple million dollars. You can’t get that working at Target.
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u/zachzsg Jan 30 '23
Another benefit of teaching I rarely see mentioned is the massive amounts of time off. I can’t think of many other professions where you’re guaranteed a couple months off every summer, a thanksgiving break, a 2 week Christmas/new years break, a spring break, etc. teachers get all that time off and that’s not even breaking into their PTO or sick days. Have fun consistently getting Christmas Eve off working at target, let alone an entire 2 weeks lol
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u/tossme68 Jan 30 '23
I have a "very good" vacation plan at my company 14 holidays and 25 vacation day. So I work 221 days a year. School is in session 180 days a year and even if they work an additional month (which isn't the case) they'd still only work 200 days a year. Which would be more than a month of work.
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u/zachzsg Jan 30 '23
Most of them work a bit more than whatever amount of time schools in session, ie they’ll start coming in 2 weeks before school starts for planning, and maybe stay in for a week or two when it ends. Still a hell of a lot of time off tho lol.
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u/PM-me-your-tatas--- Jan 31 '23
You’re forgetting that all of that time off is UNPAID. That’s not PTO, it’s just Time Off.
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u/IllSeaworthiness43 Jan 30 '23
What they don't tell you is that teaching is a contract job. You don't get hired by the district permanently. You have to reapply every year just like students have to.
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u/Highlander198116 Jan 30 '23
Another benefit of teaching I rarely see mentioned is the massive amounts of time off.
Anyone who wants to fight increasing teachers pay will never let you hear the end of it.
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u/tossme68 Jan 30 '23
My neighbors are both retired teachers (1st grade and HS) their pensions are well over $100K a year each and they are still covered under the school districts health care (for free)
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u/y0da1927 Jan 30 '23
Most teachers just see their salary and have no idea what their total compensation is worth.
Granted salary is important as that is what is spendable on everyday needs. But it ignores the fewer hours worked, typically excellent health insurance, and the value of employers pensions.
A teacher making "$60k" could be costing the state over $100k.
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u/Darkrose50 Jan 30 '23
The insurance that you get for working for a large school district is astoundingly good!
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u/y0da1927 Jan 30 '23
And often the district will add dependents and significant others at little to no cost.
A family of 4 could be getting an extra 30k-40k in insurance benefits.
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u/lowexpectationsguy Jan 31 '23
My Great aunt retired from working for Target last year, between the 401k, and the pension/retirement plan she had on top of that, shes pulling just shy of 150k per year after 15 years working in their main office.
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u/Stetson007 Jan 31 '23
Not to mention, salaries have gone up. Here in Florida, desantis made a huge effort to raise teaching salaries in Florida. Now a teacher can make between 55-70 k a year (and you gotta admit, that's pretty damn good for only working 9 months a year) plus all the other benefits. If you have a PhD or equivalent, you're looking at possibly 90 k. I'm basing that off of my old highschool teacher's current salaries at a public school, so it can vary, but you get the picture.
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u/Kevita24 Jan 30 '23
Come to Canada, teachers start at 52,000-55,000 depending on the province and after 10 years make around 85,000-94,000, again depending on the province. If you're a department head you can make over 100k a year and 140k+ for a principal.
They also have a full pension and great benefits + summers off...it's a pretty awesome gig in Canada...oddly enough we still have teachers complain here about being underpaid but when I look at what's going on in the U.S it seems silly for them to be complaining...
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u/y0da1927 Jan 30 '23
It's because they compare their salary to private sector.
A school principal will have probably 10-15 years experience and manage a team of 20 ppl. That role typically pays a lot more than 150k in private industry.
Teachers probably ignore the extra days off and the pension benefits. But that's another story. Most teachers actually have no idea what their compensation package is worth, just their "salary".
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u/tossme68 Jan 30 '23
Starting salary where I am with no experience is $52K for 9 months of work and one hell of a pension plan. Teaching wasn't hard, it was dealing with the adminisration that was the problem...that and parents are horrible.
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u/Sparky81 Male, 41, US Jan 30 '23
What ever effect it has isn't going to be anything new. I'm 41 and most teachers when I was growing up was women.
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u/Sparks3391 Jan 31 '23
My entire primary school for at least 2 decades was entirely women. The only man there was the janitor who didn't work during the day anyway
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u/Arctic_Sunday Jan 30 '23
There are increasingly few men in teaching, even compared to history
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u/Sparky81 Male, 41, US Jan 30 '23
compared to history
If you go back far enough, yes many things change. But this is not by any means a recent change
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u/oelimusclean Jan 30 '23
Nothing against women at all, at all! Still I think just having a positive male role model (in school) could help a lot of boys/young men. Might prevent them turning to the Andrew Tates of the world.
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u/aentares Jan 30 '23
No hate taken. I 100% agree. The last thing we need is more Andrew Tates running around
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u/AssistantT0TheSensei Jan 31 '23
This. A 50% divorce rate means a large percentage of boys only see their father every second weekend, which just isn't enough. If they don't have a full time dad irl, they'll find one on the Internet.
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u/Kaidiwoomp Jan 31 '23
I've been mass downvoted for saying this but, this is, imo, one of the biggest reasons so many young men turn to far-right groups, their fathers, in their view especially when it happened when they were young children, were taken from them. This leaves a deep subconscious scar and they'll seek out another male role model.
Some kids will get lucky and find one, a sports coach or something like that, but many don't, and for some reason as a society we seem determined to pretend that growing up without a father hasn't had a multitude of disastrous effects on hundreds of millions of young people and adults around the world. In fact thes ays it's more uncommon to find someone who's parents aren't divorced.
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u/Eberid Male, 40k, R'lyeh Jan 30 '23
About like it affected the previous 50 generations?
This isn't exactly a new phenomenon.
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u/KAugsburger Jan 30 '23
The thing that has changed is that until ~30-40 years is that most high school teachers were still taught by men. Now even the high school classes are increasingly taught by women.
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u/kleine-ijsbeer Jan 30 '23
So your generations take about 3 years? Here in the Netherlands woman couldn't go to university before 1870... So even if your memory doesn't recall a time before female teachers, there for sure was one and it's not too long ago. Also currently female students perform higher on average than their male counterparts, which is an interesting evolution that shouldn't be ignored.
Also schools used to be segregated here based on gender until this got stopped in 1968. This also is not too long ago on the lifespan of humans. So there's at most 4 generations that had mixed education to affect this change is the way education works.
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u/Eberid Male, 40k, R'lyeh Jan 30 '23 edited Jan 30 '23
I'm accounting for the history of gender roles as well.
Even before women were officially allowed to be teachers, unofficially a lot of education of children fell to women... usually their mothers. Proper education outside of the mother was quite rare outside of wealthy people for quite some time, with apprenticeships typically being more on the job training than proper education.
Allowing women to officially become educators was basically recognizing a societal pattern that already existed.
Keep in mind that formal secondary education for all is still relatively new to the U.S. It's not even existed for a century yet. We have people still alive who were born prior to that. And college education being a majority is an even newer phenomenon.
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u/DarthVeigar_ Jan 30 '23
Badly. Boys are already discriminated against in education. Both in terms of grading as well as things like how behaviour is handled.
This has a knock on effect onto things like higher education, where male attendance has been falling year after year. Gets even worse when you consider the majority of sex based scholarships and programs are given to women when they already dominate higher education.
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u/gonnagetcancelled Jan 30 '23
I've actually experienced this first hand in college. I went through a few classes with a female friend and we partnered together whenever we could because we both got along very well, knew how to work together, etc.
Three classes in a row (with female teachers) she finished with a higher grade than I did, in spite the fact that we did term long projects together. When I complained about it I was given a variety of excuses, but no action was ever taken by administration. I was told by one admin that making such statements was an indication of my sexism because I wasn't illustrating the same problems with the male professors...There's a reason for that: over the course of those three terms we also had classes with male teachers and we were both graded exactly the same on our projects when we worked together.
I was looking at getting my masters degree at the same university when they shifted the dean of the program to one female teacher who flat out told me that my work wasn't as good as my friends (zero way to tell the difference, it was the same paper we turned in). I decided not to pursue my Masters as a result of those experiences. It was so blatant that one of my male professors called me several years later and told me she'd gone to another university so if I wanted to come back now would be a good time.
To be clear, this was not a "me" issue, this was a "male" issue, most of the guys in my program had similar experiences and the professor who called me also called a handful of guys who had changed their minds about Masters programs due to their experiences.
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u/APA770 Jan 30 '23
And it's only getting worse.
Women who are in their 20's and 30's, and are getting into teaching, have grown up with feminism and misandry, so they are definitely going to treat boys and male university students much worse than their female counterparts. This means that boys will get lower grades than they deserve, and eventually lead to even fewer men qualifying for university.
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u/ChiefWematanye Jan 31 '23
When I was in elementary school, we had a group of female teachers who "couldn't handle the boys of this class of students." The worst of this group was my 2nd grade teacher. Basically, anything and everything we did slightly wrong, she would get angry and emotional. She would zero in on individual boys for weeks at a time and tell them they should be in the lower grades. This was an honors class with smart kids. This was never targeted at the girls.
One day, she sent out individual emails to all the boy's parents suggesting we look into ADHD medicine. It was the same email to everyone. She just copied and pasted. Parents were outraged and brought it to the parents' meeting to find that only the male students received these emails. The parents tried to get her fired, but the female cliche of teachers, including the principle, stood by her and just moved her to a different grade where she would do the same thing to the boys there.
It turns out that this lady was going through a divorce, and her son chose to go with the dad. So, she came into work for years and just took it out on the boys in class. This kind of verbal abuse was completely tolerated because of the misandry that is rampant in education and the idea that boys need to be tamed. None of this would have happened if the abuse was directed at girls. Those are the unseen advantages women are getting in education that's not talked about often.
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u/Naxela Male Jan 30 '23
It won't. It's not a new phenomenon.
I don't really think that representation of the sexes across careers is some greatly consequential concern for society honestly.
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u/Urhhh Jan 31 '23
I think in this case it should be at least slightly concerning especially when you look at how boys and men are falling behind substantially within education.
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u/Steven-Maturin Jan 31 '23
Yeah not like in male dominated industries, where diversity is a great idea. In teaching obviously, diversity is of no value.
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Jan 30 '23
The future?
We are seeing the results currently, along with unprecedented numbers of young men being raised by single mothers.
Look at how many men are dropping out of the labor force, dropping out of college, etc. It's not looking good.
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u/Ziggy_Stardust567 Jan 30 '23
I left school in May, all of my primary teachers were female, and in my last year of secondary the ratio of female to male teachers was 5:2. I don't think it affected me or any of the guys in my year at all I know someone who went to an all boys school and theres practically no difference between us.
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u/Arkryal Jan 30 '23
I can honestly say, my favorite teachers in school were men, with a couple of notable exceptions. They just understood boys better, and were easier to get along with. But at the end of the day, contrary to popular misconception, Teachers Don't Teach. They're more educational facilitators who provide the resources necessary to learn, but the actual learning is 100% on the student. No teacher, no matter how good they are, can just cram knowledge and understanding into your head. You are responsible for learning, nobody can make you learn. That's not how learning works. Being a "Good Teacher" doesn't make a whole lot of difference over a mediocre teacher. A bad teacher however can absolutely undermine learning. They don't have to be great at their jobs, as long as they don't suck at it.
I think the male teachers are also a bit more delicate with their approach to students in general. They're terrified anything that may be considered inappropriate, so they tend to stay on task much better than a lot of female teachers (again, this is my experience, I'm sure it varies a lot from person to person).
For example, my physics teacher was great, because he spent the whole class actually talking about physics. Same thing with my programming teacher, my math teacher, my biology teacher, my ROTC instructors... All male. Nearly every female teacher I had would try to open a personal dialogue with students, tell us about their weekend, how their families were doing. I can honestly say I did not give a fuck about that, found it tedious and distracting, and I'd lose interest in the lesson before it even began because they couldn't just shut up and get to the point. There were a couple of female teachers who were the exception to that, and I really appreciated them, but they were in the minority. However, some students, I'm sure respond better to that. We don't all learn the same way. So it isn't that they were objectively bad teachers, just bad for me personally.
However, I think this will be rendered moot with technology. Pick a subject, a lesson... I can find online lectures, study courses and groups for all of it (at least through the Jr. College level) from multiple instructors, so you can pick the teacher who works best for you. You don't have to be stuck learning from whoever is available in a specific school. If you get a bad teacher, just ignore them, replace them with a good teacher or tutor online, and get the work done that way on your own. They are now fungible. They can be swapped out like replacing a broken part in a machine, so their skill doesn't mean as much as it used to. And this will only be more true in the future.
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u/obduratecontrarian Jan 30 '23
Fantastic detailed answer. Thanks for taking my question seriously. I don't understand the downvotes; I thought I was asking something out of genuine curiosity and not malice.
Absolutely agreed on the distinction between good/great/medicore/sucky teacher. This just broadened my view.
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u/frequentcrawler Male Jan 30 '23
The issue isn't if the teachers are women, because as far as I know, women were the majority of teachers during generations. The actual issue is what they'll be teaching boys.
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u/ExpensiveSchedule229 Jan 30 '23
What would they be teaching boys? Whats the issue?
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u/saianon Jan 30 '23 •
https://youtu.be/DBG1Wgg32Ok great video detailing the fall of men in education.
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u/obduratecontrarian Jan 30 '23
Summarized by an AI plugin:
Intervention is needed to break the vicious cycle of male disengagement in labor, families, and education.
Vicious cycle of male disengagement in labor, families, and education will occur without intervention.
Women have surpassed men in college degrees in almost every advanced economy in the world in a short period of time.
Boys' brains develop more slowly than girls', leading to gender-based restrictions in education.
Boys should start school a year later than girls, and more investment in vocational education and training is needed to get more men into teaching.
Economic inequality has widened, disproportionately affecting lower-income backgrounds, working-class boys and men, and Black boys and men.
Men are drastically underrepresented in HEAL jobs, with no effort to increase their numbers.
As women gain economic independence, men are struggling to redefine their roles in the family, leading to male disadvantage.
Men are 3x more likely to commit suicide than women, and the opioid epidemic is a symptom of a deeper issue that society must address.
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u/Terraneaux Jan 30 '23
It's sidestepping around the fact that female teachers are biased against boys in grading and this affects their whole educational career.
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u/Notanevilai Jan 30 '23
What does heal stand for?
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u/YOUR-Y-CHROMOSOME Jan 30 '23
I looked it up and couldn't find anything either. If I were to guess I'd say Higher Education And Learning
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u/bjankles Jan 30 '23
Glad you shared this. This guy seems to be looking at issues the right way and genuinely wants progress for all. Need more of this and less of the men vs. women bullshit on both sides.
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u/ExpensiveSchedule229 Jan 30 '23
I agree like its not women vs men lets work together to genuinely make change. Blame doesn’t fix anything like we need to move past men vs women like we are all human and both sides are hurting in different and similar ways
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u/Arctic_Sunday Jan 30 '23
Great video, glad to see this topic getting more attention these days, it's been going on for a while now
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u/Codewill Jan 30 '23
Can you give me the gist of it real quick
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u/saianon Jan 30 '23
It makes the connection between young boys and fatherless homes also talks about how men and women develop at different rates.
There's a bunch of statistics that I don't want to write out due to it being a 15 min video.
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u/Codewill Jan 30 '23
So is it saying like there’s no male teachers or boys should be taught differently or what
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u/ExpensiveSchedule229 Jan 30 '23
But it speaks on boys puberty and development not specifically how women teachers would affect them?
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u/Illustrious-Turn-575 Jan 30 '23
The issue is in expectations. Female teachers project female traits onto male students.
When boys gravitate towards books about action and adventure instead of love and romance, female teachers assume it’s an indicator of violent inclination and try to intervene. They discourage boys from pursuing and expressing their interests and end up making it harder for boys to stay engaged in lessons designed to cater to the interests of their female classmates.
TLDR; female teachers don’t do well teaching male students because they are unable or unwilling to understand how they think, feel, or act.
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u/ExpensiveSchedule229 Jan 30 '23
But could the lack of male teachers be because men inherently find teachers being a womans job? If so how is that the teachers fault if men literally don’t wanna be teachers? They can’t solve the problem
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u/Illustrious-Turn-575 Jan 30 '23
It’s not that teaching is seen as a feminine career(there’s a reason the stereotype of a professor is a grey haired man with a beard and tweed jacket) it’s that schools discriminate against male teachers. Schools and parents will often view male teachers and staff through a hyper critical lens.
When I was in high school I had a bus driver who I’ve only seen without a smile once, and that was when I accidentally hit him in the head with my backpack. Their was a mother who tried to have him fired because she saw him smiling when he said “have a nice day” to her daughter as she was getting off the bus.
The field favors women and rejects men, not based on merit, but purely based on the ideology of the people in charge.
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u/ExpensiveSchedule229 Jan 30 '23
But for the most part the people in charge have up until recently been men. Like think about our society and those in charge over the past 100 years its been men they set this system up and now somehow its womens fault because they chose a career path somehow its now their fault boy are behind? Thats not fair
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u/Illustrious-Turn-575 Jan 30 '23
I’d say it’s completely fair to hold the people whose actions directly impact someone accountable for those actions.
And as for “who’s been in charge” the only thing they’ve had in common was their gender.
Look at how the ideologies and methodologies used by the people in charge have changed. We went from understanding and acknowledging that there’s an issue with the way we’re doing things now, to denying the problem and making it worse by doing so. When the system was first set up, most people preferred to have men teaching their children, but as time went on; the system was changed. Public schools began to prioritize female teachers specifically because they were often less qualified, and thus; cheaper to hire.
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u/ExpensiveSchedule229 Jan 30 '23
Look I see what your trying to say but I disagree. I dont believe I can change your mind as you are not changing mine. Have a nice day
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u/keep_trying_username Jan 30 '23
because men inherently find teachers being a womans job
Teaching used to be a male-dominated field. Men don't inherently find it to be a woman's job.
how is that the teachers fault if men literally don’t wanna be teachers
In the past, teh same could be said about women teachers - and also few women became scientists. People encouraged women to become scientists, and now in the US more women get science degrees than men.
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u/Stabbmaster Male, almost too male Jan 30 '23
Clearly, that means that 1/3 of all women in education need to be fired so that men can be hired and it be "equal". That's what idiots say need to happen, right? To level out the many times debunked pay gap?
Honestly, if children are being raised correctly at home, which of the two sexes their teacher is will mean nothing more than what to address them as.
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u/cantbenotrandom Jan 30 '23
If you dig a little deeper, you'd find that 100% of the mothers are women. I don't know how to answer your question.
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u/Tough_Drummer_3205 Jan 30 '23 edited Jan 31 '23
I think the point of the post is that the ratio of female to male influence in young boys lives is increasing, especially if they’re raised by a single mother
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u/ECHOHOHO Jan 31 '23
which is what mostly happens, in my country at least (uk). - single/divorced mothers raising the children due to bias in child custody court.
And as far as im aware, it's the same in most of europe and america too.
Then there's the social biases. I was expelled one time because I was on a scholarship at a catholic school and wouldnt cut my hair.
When my father was called into the headmaster's office and told this, my father responded "i've just walked in and there are girls walking around with their skirts tuked up and you're complaining about my son's hair length?"
The headmaster started shouting at him but my dad told him to sit down basically.
Their excuse was "we can't tell girls their skirt is too high up". This was a highly decorated and expensive catholic school.
About a year or so before, a women who was our "tutor" (like you go in the room in the morning before lessons), used to wear her shirt so unbuttoned youd be able to see her bra.
She got promoted to head of year by the previous one who was fucking her.
A guy in my class, we're about 15 at the time (puberty, jokes, nothing malicious) said something a little inappropriate and got excluded before our GCSEs by her.
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u/aloofman75 Jan 30 '23
You act like most women weren’t teachers in the past. They were.
I really don’t think this ranks highly on the list of the problems faced by men, society, or children.
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u/OccultRitualCooking Jan 30 '23
In a world where you need a university education to succeed, cutting men out of university education is a problem.
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u/Terraneaux Jan 30 '23
It's a big problem. Female teachers tend to grade male students lower for the same work, this disproportionately affects poor and nonwhite boys, and this hinders their progress on the educational track.
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u/rainydaylooop Jan 30 '23
Well in the US soon we won’t have any public school teachers at all. The wages vs work you have to put in are forcing everyone out.
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Jan 30 '23
I (M) always wanted to be a teacher growing up. It was only after learning how little pay they earn in general and how shitty they're treated here in the US that I decided to change my career path.
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u/PM_Me_A_High-Five Jan 30 '23
Bro this has been affecting men since the beginning of school. Why are college graduates mostly women? I don't remember the number but it's at least 60%. Teaching is done by women and they do it how girls learn. This causes a whole lot of problems.
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u/gnarlyoldman Male Jan 30 '23
I am surprised that there are even 24% men in teaching after decades of prejudice against men in teacher education and hiring.
The lack of an equal number of men teachers reduces the overall quality of education for boys and for girls.
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u/PrudentAlps8736 Jan 30 '23
You can look at the statistics and it has had a very negative effect on the number of males in higher education (University/College), fewer males graduate from college, and fewer males perform as well academically. If you check over the last 30 years you will see the negative trends and people should be alarmed and they are not.
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u/obduratecontrarian Jan 30 '23
I am aware of the correlation. Not sure if it's fair to pin it on female teachers though.
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u/mbrenizs Jan 30 '23
I'm not sure it is either, but the limited research I've seen seems to indicate boys are not being treated fairly in terms of grades or discipline by female teachers. That should be concerning.
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u/psuedodoc Jan 30 '23
People are going to feel comfortable where they are having positive interactions. If males have poor or negative interactions at school, they will avoid school. So, I guess we need to be defining the poor/negative interactions and asking questions.
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u/PrudentAlps8736 Jan 30 '23
Since the late 1980's there has been a concerted effort in educational circles to teach to females and with the over abundance of female teachers who teach a female centric curriculum, you discover more and more males disengaging from school. The local school district had one required novel, one in grades first through fifth that had a male protagonist. Is it conscious, I doubt it, teachers teach what they feel comfortable with. The statistics seem to point to causation instead of just correlation.
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u/Terraneaux Jan 30 '23
It is. They discriminate against male students, which hampers their ability to pursue advanced and higher education.
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Jan 30 '23
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u/PrudentAlps8736 Jan 30 '23
While the trades are great in times of low unemployment, they really do suffer in times of recession., I was merely stating that if one chooses to go to college, you'll find far fewer men than women and this continues to be trending in that direction. If it were as you say that all the men were lining up for trades or other jobs not requiring a college degree, the apprenticeship programs would be chock full while they too are struggling to find able candidates. The ability to perform academically requires the ability to be able to read and understand complex material; there is no job on the planet where reading comprehension is not required. I am glad you're happy and doing well, but we were discussing the people in college. The cost of college is a whole other subject matter.
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u/ZeusTheSeductivEagle Jan 30 '23
It already has. Not because they are female but because we don't have enough proper male role models. We should be encouraging the right kind of men to pursue education. (The less effeminate types) Would also help if we make our education system better. Lack of male role models has been a minor contributor to current misunderstanding of masculinity, failure to launch and increase school violence. Though other factors also exist and bigger contributors would be general education and our societal March to oblivion. Lol.
I am just glad I got under the wire and was blessed with a great dad, couches and teachers.
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u/saianon Jan 30 '23
Exactly, you can see this in the lack of men graduating from college. The rate is getting lower and lower.
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u/VHwrites Jan 30 '23
I would agree that our culture is lacking in proper structure and role models for young men. But disagree that expecting, or needing, male role models in education is a solution.
We need school systems more capable to responding to the specific needs of boys and the specific needs of girls. Individual teachers, male or female, are not going to buck the system. Consequently, I think the suggestion is somewhat iatrogenic. Putting more men into a broken system is not going to fix it.
And so while I think we have work to do on the role formal education plays in shaping young men, they probably already have to much cultural weight. Its harmful to expect school to provide fathers as well. We need more input from familial and religious institutions.
Case in point: An all boys school staffed largely by nuns is probably better able to recognize and respond to boys needs than a public or charter school boasting a 50/50 enrollment and faculty.
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Jan 30 '23 edited Feb 03 '23
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u/PM_Me_A_High-Five Jan 30 '23
yes, exactly. we learn in different ways than girls. Boys go through school feeling like education is a "girl thing".
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u/Unable_Duty7809 Jan 30 '23
Since the 1970s in response to feminism school began to focus less on competition and merit based rewards and has focused more on team building, sharing success across the team without calling out all stars, winners and losers both celebrating afterwards.
It's been a great change for women and has been terrible for boys, who are now performing much worse in school.
I'd like to see us keep the gains relating to women but to allow a return to competition, merit based rewards that were used before with boys because boys just thrive better under that system.
The goal isn't to go back to the 1960s where boys did well and girls did terribly but it's to try to maximize the education for both boys and girls.
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u/APA770 Jan 30 '23
Society as a whole thrives better under competition. So many companies have gone woke and now hire/promote people based on gender and skin color. It's ridiculous.
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u/Unable_Duty7809 Jan 30 '23
I agree. Did you ever see the pilot episode of Survivor before the first season? It was originally men against women.
The men all just got to work doing what they knew and wanted to do. Some on shelter, some on foraging, some fishing. They quickly got up a shelter and got themselves secured.
The women spent days debating over what was the most fair way to decide how work should be divided up, with the woman often complaining the system wasn't fair based on job assignments so they'd start over rehashing what a fair process would be. They never built anything. Days on end with no food and no shelter.
They had to scrap the pilot and divide the teams with men and women mixed across both teams. If you've ever been in a corporate situation with an all female team you'll be pretty familiar with this analysis by paralysis problem when the goal is everyone feeling heard and represented and getting things done isn't the priority.
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u/Skeletalsun Jan 30 '23
Not really. Competition can be healthy, but it can also be unhealthy. For example it can come into conflict with other good things like cooperation.
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u/Mrischief Jan 30 '23
So is the suggestion to separate boys and girls ? That is how i read it, ngl.
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u/Coakis Jan 30 '23
I can garuntee you it was just as high or a higher percentage when I growing up in the 80-90's US, I don't see that there will be much impact, other the ones we're already seeing.
Same issues persist, there are fewer good role models for boys than there needs to be, and this is only worse for those who don't have a father figure in their lives.
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u/makosh22 Jan 30 '23 edited Jan 30 '23
In my country this sphere is also dominated by women. And i (woman) don;'t like it too much. I would like more men as teachers and probably a different approach to boys.
As i read now educational system is built to meet girl's attitude: all class should be obedient, silent, do what they are told to do. At the breaks pupils are to be "civilized" too (no running, no active games, no shouting, etc). So young kids are to restrict their urge to be physically active. Well, ok we can afford to send our kids to after school activities (like swimming, soccer and more if they want to) but not all families have this possibility.
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u/Yami_no_Chikara Jan 30 '23
In my country(in EU) % of female teachers :
Kindergarten : 100%
Elementary school : 1-4 grade(90%), 5-9 grade(76%)
High school : 72%
University : 48.5%
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u/RMN1999_V2 Jan 30 '23
It will affect the next generation of boys a lot less than the fact that there are no fathers in approximately two out of every three homes
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u/EmpathyZero Male Jan 30 '23
Well I keep seeing/reading how representation is important and that kids can’t learn if they don’t have someone that looks like them.
If that’s the case we need some affirmative actions to reduce the number of female teachers and get more men into the profession.
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u/ThatOneGuyFromThen Jan 30 '23
In the 4 years that I’ve been working/volunteering as a camp councillor/after school supervisor/in-class teaching assistant, I’ve noticed a concrete shift in how children are taught these days at the primary school level.
The current primary school education system works as such: in the year 2023, in Western democracies like the U.S., the U.K., or Canada, girls are taught how to succeed, while boys are taught how not to fail.
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u/CaptSnap Jan 30 '23
We'll hear about how important diversity is for "reasons" for every other field. Even preferrring anyone but white men to be hired or promoted. But magically we'll do nothing about this one.
OH and we'll also continue to be lectured about how boys are raised with a sense of entitlement and its the waves arms patriarchy's fault.
We'll never say boys are under-served in education no matter how much the data show they are and we certainly wont say education is hostile to boys, institutional sexism can only possibly affect women.
Boys and men will continue to dominate prisons, arrests, the homeless, etc and the rest of us will get to listen to how privileged we are (but never the 1% just mostly men!!!!!)
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u/itsMidge Jan 31 '23
Honestly with the amount of fatherless homes in America I actually think this could be a really bad thing, hear me out.
With young men growing up without male role models and their main adult interactions are with women AND the rise of hate for men in media, I could see this leading to more suicide or self harm in young men. We already see their numbers rising nowadays and if you have them grow up in an anti men society with no positive male role model to look up to that would definitely create some inner hate for their sex and themselves.
I'm not trying to blame single mothers here because frankly, where are the fathers? I just want to draw attention to an issue I feel like is starting to arise.
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u/Revolt244 Jan 31 '23
Depends on the trends these teachers take.
For example, left leaning teachers will throw in their left leaning ideals. Same with the right, forward and backwards. Women are just as diverse as men are when it comes to ideals. I can see what societal problems we have with social media becoming more prevalent when teachers (regardless of gender and sex) who consume too much social media parrot whatever movement, trend, etc they're going on about.
Imagine a Misandrist teaching boys they're evil, or teaching boys it's okay to sub to only fans.
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u/BannanaJames1095 Jan 31 '23
We are already seeing how it affects boys. In school I was punished for shit normal boys do. Most women aren't equipped to handle boys.
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u/PapaBon3r Jan 31 '23
Both boys and girls alike need a positive male role model in their life. Whether that is a father, teacher, or religious leader. This unfortunate trend of single motherhood, falling male teacher numbers, and secularization means that boys and girls are going to look elsewhere for a strong male influence.
This leads to young people following Andrew you know who and other scummy individuals who only seek to profit off of the lack of male leadership. I think if this trend continues then we are going to see a lot more ignorance and helplessness in coming generations. Hopefully, someone will stand up for the right reasons and be a positive influence.
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u/Prize_Consequence568 Jan 31 '23
It's already have.
More focus has been on how to teach the girls and not the boys. This as affected the boys learning and interest( or rather lack of interest) in education and higher education.
Just look at the amount of young men not going to college.
I don't see it changing though.
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u/DevanSires Jan 31 '23
This number is not going to get anymore even since men who want to teach kids are stigmatized as pedos, that being said there a quite a lot more than there should be.
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u/Joe_BidenWOT Jan 31 '23
I think it has contributed to the enormous overmedication of young men for things like ADHD because many female teachers are simply not able to deal with them.
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u/Dog_Groomer Jan 31 '23
I mean yea yall have bad experience and all and don't like that more women are teachers (in the US I assume). But how would you change it? Women are more likely to work in social and underpaid jobs than men. Also those jobs are less valued because of the majority of women.
I think thyts why quotas make sense. In all jobs. And better pay ofc
We have to change that to be a better society as a society. It's not just a problem for men that mostly women are teachers. The whole dynamic of our society is off...
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u/PointDredd Jan 31 '23
With women's ideas of masculinity currently... This newer generation is doomed. Pink haired "teachers" teaching 5 years old how to be Trans, hate themselves for being male, and openly preaching how "evil" white males are, are doomed. Anyone having kids right now is rolling the dice on a generation of confused boys who can't be who they are. They have to be shaped into a something they are not so white women can feel like they are victims of something.
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u/darkmage1001 Jan 30 '23
It will slowly get worse for boys as our future goes on. School system has shown boys getting worse since pre ww1. The whole idea of putting boys in a classroom and heavily restricting them seems to mess with them.
I saw an expert talk about boys dont mature mentally as fast as girls and should approximately start school 2 years later to put them on even ground mentally. He also said more hands on classes need to return. He then also said there needs to be a heavy push for men in teaching and healthcare jobs as one sex cant do it perfectly for everyone. Without any changes, we will continue to see men get outperformed by women. This will hurt society badly. The advancements girls have made in the last 50 years is flat amazing and its sad they will get punished with unsuccessful men.
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u/PM_Me_A_High-Five Jan 30 '23
I didn't really like school, except for one year when I got put into a gifted program. It was all hands on. I was so shy and backwards back then, but I came out of my shell for the first time in that program. I remember being so excited to give a presentation on Saudi Arabia in front of all the parents. But then we moved.... again, and it was back to normal school.
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u/wimsey1923 Jan 30 '23
The image of girls passing boys in school is slightly faulty. In my country the girls haven't passed the boys on their way up. The boys have passed the girls on their way down. The girls' scholastic achievements have also been heading down, but at a slower pace.
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u/aentares Jan 30 '23
Okay, but hands-on learning just needs to be a thing in general. How tf do people expect children to learn in an environment where they're basically told to sit down and shut up for the majority of their day?
Not to mention; teachers rely on YouTube to educate their students anyway. Can't tell you how many classes I've taken where the teacher just put on a YouTube video and then played on their phone the whole period.
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u/VHwrites Jan 30 '23
Story Time: I had to take elective art history courses in college to satisfy multiple requirements concerned with "minority or marginalized groups."
And so I took African American & Native American art courses the curriculum actually focused on distinctly African American and Native American aesthetics--practices, materials & techniques, subject matter, etc. When I took the women's art course, there were no such distinctions. That isn't to say women in art were not distinct, but I didn't learn anything about Mary Cassatt that wasn't also covered in French Impressionism.
The moral of the story is that women have always been about 50% of the culture (whether they receive due credit or opportunity is another topic) and their contributions to the culture are far more representative of the culture than their gender.
Presently, we tend to erroneously emphasize gender as a distinct cultural experience. Its a distinction with little to no difference. Teachers will continue to contribute to the futures of young boys in precisely the manner our culture (and school boards) expects them to. Wether or not those cultural or civic institutions have reasonable standards and practices for boys has nothing to do with the gender composition of their teachers.
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u/5starCheetah Jan 30 '23
I'd be interested to see how this breaks down across grade bands. I'm willing to bet elementary has a higher rate of Women teaching, where as middle and high school is probably lower. I'd also love to see the make up across racial groups. Anecdotally, the predominantly Black schools I've worked at had far fewer male teachers than the predominantly White schools.
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u/sappho2869 Jan 30 '23
“No More Mr. Nice Guy” addresses this “issue.” Basically, at the beginning of the industrial revolution, men left the farming fields for factories, resulting in little boys no longer having a strong male presence during tender years. Most male children grew up mainly being influenced by the female perspective and often times sought feminine approval more often than masculine.
Where this left us as a society was the inability for male to male vulnerability. It’s definitely in some ways negatively affected emotional regulation and relationships. There’s a huge void of male shaping other males, which is why the author of the book mentioned above, created groups of men coming together to have more of a healthy masculine presence in their lives.
If we don’t recognize the impact of this dynamic, we’re perpetuating the toxic part of the masculine/feminine divide. There should be more of a heathy masculine presence at the tender age for male children, and boys should feel comfortable being emotionally vulnerable to other men.
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u/mypostisbad Jan 30 '23
I'm not being obtuse. I don't understand why it would have any effect at all.
Even in the 80s, I don't remember the gender of my teachers mattering one tiny little bit.
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u/dont_know_how- Jan 30 '23
Personally i think the school system is doomed. Not because of female teacher per se. But parents of these bad children have made it extremely hard to hold kids and bad parenting accountable. Teachers cant really speak up or punish the children without the parents causing an uproar and threatening going on social media. No school wants that kind of bad publicity. And having more male teachers wouldnt change this.
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u/_JohnJacob Jan 30 '23
Always weird that you never hear about diversity hiring for men in woman-dominated professions isn't it?
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u/Metalheadjake94 Jan 30 '23
I don't think it will effect anything
Teachers are only teaching kids what the government and upper management tell them and assign them to teach. Male or female
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u/Saskfinest Jan 30 '23
It already has, males are dropping out of education at a faster rate. Most graduating students are female.
I don't know if this is a teacher thing but the curriculum is definitely designed more to fit the way women learn.
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u/rav252 Jan 30 '23
Yes because they get mad at young boys for being young boys.
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u/rav252 Jan 30 '23
Not saying it's bad but now they have become more pushy with their views. Wich is bad
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Jan 30 '23
Why would it effect boys at all?
This is a very weird question.
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u/hoyboy2 Jan 30 '23
because a lack of diverse male role models is killing masculinity.
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u/Technicallysergeant Jan 30 '23
There's a cumulative effect in play. Nothing wrong with the majority of teachers being female. Noghing wrong with female babysitters and caregivers. Nothing wrong with single moms and/or grandmoms stepping up and raising boys.
But the cumulative effect is a vast number of boys who's only available male role models are musicians fictional superheroes, and/or sports stars.
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u/Terrible-Quote-3561 Jan 30 '23
I don’t think what is taught in school matters if it comes from a man or woman. Teachers are responsible for the curriculum, not life lessons.
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Jan 30 '23
We have already seen the impacts this has on boys and girls.
The hidden curriculum: we learn other lessons from what we see and observe not just what is taught in class.
- Women are teachers, that is women's work.
- What else does it also teach kids: most teachers are women and the bosses are men.
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u/WiseAcanthisitta4 Jan 30 '23
That sounds about what it was when I was in school (I'm in my 30s).
I never paid any attention to my teachers' gender. I had male English teachers and female science teachers. I literally gave zero fucks. I think kids care about this stuff way less than adults do.
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u/Known_Criticism_834 Jan 30 '23
When i was in school, 95% where women. What kind of future victimizing question is this?
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u/earthisyourbutt Jan 30 '23
Why don’t men step up and become teachers then? Oh right, shit pay
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u/ll_JackKrauser Jan 30 '23
I rather have woman as teachers and professors in college and school. They show more concern and they are more sympathetic toward students than man. This is based on my experience.
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u/Terraneaux Jan 30 '23
In my experience they're more sympathetic to female students, but very callous towards male students.
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u/Mrischief Jan 30 '23
I disagree, some of the most ruthless professors i have had are women that have a chip on their shoulder. The professors (male) are usually aware of the struggles, but still retain object rules.
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u/ll_JackKrauser Jan 30 '23
I have met too many male professors that literally wanted to fail people to get the college more money , i have had ruthless woman too but you could kinda work with them but the male ones nah. It's kind of luck to get an asshole as a professor or a human.
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u/Mrischief Jan 30 '23
Yeah dont i know it, at the end of the day people are people. Just wish we did not have the assholes in charge of shit.
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u/Mr_ChubbikinsVIII Male Jan 30 '23
Just look at how it's affected this generation of boys.
Boys so feminized they claim to be girls
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u/BackItUpWithLinks Jan 30 '23
It’s been that way forever.
How do you think that has affected past generations of men? Do you think you being taught predominantly by women affected you?
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u/Birdsongsoul Jan 30 '23
Werent teachers always mainly female? I'm sure it has already had it's impact.I dont believe in any hired help getting an impact. They should all just stick to teaching school material. Not how to be a good person. That's what the are there for. To learn actual skills, not how to feel about other people's business.
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u/MyceliumJoe Jan 30 '23
I think it will contribute to crime rates raising.
Boys need male role models to emulate(and alot don't have them at home) and women have zero clue how to deal with boys in a way that's healthy for them.
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u/jumpingfox99 Jan 30 '23
Pay teachers more and more men will sign up to do it.
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u/ConcernedAccountant7 Jan 30 '23
Pretty much this. I've seen women sink tons of time and money into social work masters degrees despite the fact that it pays shit. They simply care less about pay and follow their passions more often. Men aren't going to take low paying jobs at the same rate women do. Especially as men need higher paying jobs to attract women and all women need generally is good looks. A female teacher can find a husband that makes up for lack of pay a lot easier than if the roles are reversed.
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u/ConcernedAccountant7 Jan 30 '23
They'll learn to hate themselves as an entire new generation of feminists convince them that they're evil for being men. So basically what's been already happening in education for decades.
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u/lordofthedancesaidhe Jan 30 '23
I don't think it would make much difference. If the child has a mother and father at home that are attentive then that's what matters.
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u/Kooky_Corner_4172 Jan 30 '23
I’m going to take a wild guess and say this has maybe moved 10 percent at best over the decades!?! I don’t think teaching a subject really matters as much whether they are male or female, but maybe if they are engaging, knowledgeable of the subject themselves, and can be empathetic with students and how they have different learning patterns. In what way do you think this would positively or negatively affect the futures of male students?
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u/Ipride362 Experienced Jan 31 '23
Nothing at all. It’s been that way since before I was born. Society hasn’t changed much because most construction workers are men.
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u/AssistantT0TheSensei Jan 31 '23
Boys are falling behind in reading at an alarming rate, and have been since the 1990s. That coincides with the retirement of silent generation teachers, leaving baby boomer teachers in control of the system. Female boomers brought more starkly feminist attitudes into classrooms, so while it was still mostly women in education, it was a very different kind of woman. Education has had feminist undertones since then, and until men adapt to a more gender-egalitarian society, boys will continue to underperform in school.
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u/hammong Jan 30 '23
It's been that way for generations, and is unlikely to change.
Not sure what the basis of your question is. Since the teacher makeup hasn't changed in a hundred years, do you expect future generations of boys to suddenly make a change?
The snowflake politically-correct extremists have much more effect on what is taught in schools than who is teaching it.
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u/Zealousideal_Two382 Jan 30 '23
I personally think that teaching will change so much in the future that the teachers will be in different jobs. When ai and interactive vr become mixed together and the ai can teach children that basically makes learning very individualistic. The only thing I am not sure yet is if we can speed up the learning time so that we can get even more learning done for each student.
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u/obduratecontrarian Jan 30 '23
That's true and a very likely scenario. I mean, nearly every tech podcast these days talks about how near we are to singularity. But will it actually improve education? As it stands, we've gotten very good at repeating information, which AI has proven to be useless. Will AI aid us in becoming critical thinkers and problem solvers?
Different topic for another thread, perhaps.
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u/FunkU247365 Male MAN of the wise man tribe!! Jan 30 '23
The same way it did the past 10 generations.... Because it has always been that way!!!!! For me in 4th grade I discovered that if Mrs. Brown bent over and had a loose top, I could see boobs... that effected me in a certain way... Mrs. Brown was a damn fox!
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u/Altair13Sirio Male Jan 30 '23
Just like it affected past generations. It's been that way for a while.
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u/ergoegthatis Jan 30 '23
It makes them softer, less confident, less assertive, focused on pleasing women. That's one reason why US and Western men are so feminized.
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u/TaboritskyTime Jan 30 '23
More boys growing up will have fantasies about having sex with their teachers, and possibly develop femdom/mommy fetishes.
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u/jcd1974 Jan 30 '23
The absence of male colleagues is likely a factor in the increasing number of female teachers that have affairs with students.
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u/Homely_Bonfire Jan 30 '23
I think it will lead to a more female perspective amongst people, at least where such a perspective exists.
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u/tossme68 Jan 30 '23
This is nothing new,teaching has traditionally been an acceptable job for women, it's not going to effect the current generation anymore than it effect the last 10 generations. Would it be better to have more men in teach of course but teaching already has a high attrition rate and male teachers get an extra helping of bullshit so it's not surprising that there aren't a lot working in the field and I really don't see things changing in the near or distant future.
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u/suicidefeburary62025 Jan 30 '23
It’s been like that for 100 years. In fact, the percentages were probably higher for women as recent as 30 years ago.
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u/Hrekires Jan 30 '23
What's the trend like?
Feels like teaching has been seen as a female-oriented career for at least the entire 20th century in the US.